Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

Thank you so much. Wobbly when I read your comment 'men redefining it made me look. I'm arguing with a man!!!
Who the hell does he think he is?!

Also we seem to be told "trans women are women" and we should accept them as simply "women" yet actual women aren't women but must be known as "cis women" or some other reductive term.

Taylor22 great post, I agree with it all, not least on the term "cis". It irks me no end many seem to expect us now to prefix "women" with "cis" - women are women. As WobblyLegs5 said it's rendering it difficult/near impossible to actually talk about being a woman and what that means in so many ways. Now many say you can't talk about issues such as pregnancy, abortion and periods as "affecting women", it's ridiculous.

I saw on some Twitter posts people saying Cis women don't know what persecution etc is.

I have also seen and heard nonsense like this, as well as reminders to "check cis privilege". It's very useful to some, convincing women ("cis women") they have huge privilege, shutting us down when we try to discuss the rampant misogyny faced daily so we can't fight it, making women into a "privileged" category and centring trans issues in feminism. I wonder who that ultimately benefits.

But open-minded people want to support the first cause and struggle with seeming bigoted regarding the second.

I totally agree. Although the more media exposure trans-people get, the more people are waking up to the fact that there is something a little off. I've yet to see any transwoman in the media come across as credible.

Asking people wholesale to buy in to the notion that your gender dysphoria should be used as a means of making you politically powerful/credible/special is just daft.

Gender dysphoria is just that. It can't be used as any sort of criteria for making people think your opinion should hold any more weight than anyone else's. In fact it's probably the opposite. If your entire life revolves around your identity, it's not going to make you the most dispassionate, well-balanced person in terms of other issues.

The media have only portrayed harmful stories throughout history. Search happy marriage and you will get the once in a blue moon story of the couple been married for 70 years or something. Search affair, divorce, separation or abuse and you will get loads more.

Re Stonewall, this seems to me an organisation which supported homosexual rights, a valid cause, using that legitimacy to promote something utterly different and actually harmful. But open-minded people want to support the first cause and struggle with seeming bigoted regarding the second.

It reminds me of legitimate arguments in the 1980s to lower the age of consent for homosexual acts to the same as heterosexual acts, with less wholesome arguments around removing the age of consent completely.

CharlieSierra

I have only skimmed it, because I got so pissed off. Trans people claiming they are the most victimised community on the planet, but sure as hell wanting more special treatment than anyone else in the universe.

The rock solid theme running through it is how much discrimination and disadvantage trans-people face. Has it ever occurred to anybody that there is a reason for that? The insistence that you can change sex and everybody else has to agree. Not only does everybody know that you can't change sex, the very insistence is what causes the friction.

If the legal status was 'trans' and actually reflected reality, the friction would dissipate.

People treat transwomen differently not because they are trans, but because they are insisting they women, with everything suggesting otherwise.

They also did not mention that trans-people now includes cross dressing fetishists. They say that the media portray only 'harmful' stories. Well duh.

If they addressed the large section of transwomen who have AGP, you might be able to take it a little more seriously. More and more people are realising that there is a very definite dark underbelly to this. Pretending it doesn't exist is only serving to highlight it more.

Even easier one to point out is how they demand we use their choice of pronouns but then they expect us to put up with them naming us cis

Wow thank you so much.

I did say in one of my replies that one group can't just decide an name for another.
That one race couldn't force a name on another.
Does that make sense?
It's so hard to explain why I feel this way without offending people! And I'm not trying to!

Men pushing cis on us is them redefining our language for us without our consent, taking away our language takes away our opportunity to discuss the experience of being female- both the physical biological experience (we now have pomegranit pee pee not menstruation, doudleberrys not ovary and naughty doudleberry's for pcos, and front holes not vagina) and what men do to us because the recognise we are female. That's not acceptable and they can fuck right off if they think women should just passively accept it.

Also-for the truama transwomen go thriugh- they actually have a lower chance of murder than women, lower even than men according to the last analysis I read on Twitter (source of all facts don't ya knlw) the higher rates are because the figures are mostly taken from Brazil or from tw murdered because they work in sex work- and women are murdered at huge numbers when they work in sex work also. The higher risk of sui comes from a study of 2000+ people mermaids quote yet they fail to mention less than 30 people in the study were trans-so hardly representative sample

I'm sorry but I haven't rtft but have a question that I didn't want to start a whole thread for.

I'm in a debate with someone and need help backing up why I feel a certain way. I can sort of explain it but not eloquently and I've seen women here commenting on the matter much better then I ever could.

I don't like being called a Cis women. I am a women. If someone were to call me Cis I would correct them.
A trans woman is just that. I don't need to be categorised further.

But what else can I say about this whole Cis thing?

I saw on some Twitter posts people saying Cis women don't know what persecution etc is.

So let's just all ignore the centuries of sexism, misogyny and patriarchy we've had to fight.

Sorry it became a ramble. You can see why I need help (I don't know how to use the search function)

Haven't had time to read thoroughly yet but they want children to be entitled to medical confidentiality in line with Gillick competencies, the sex by deception laws to 'protect the privacy' of trans people, and self determination rather than the current process.

I don't know if this has been linked here yet, but stonewall has a five year planned to increase trans viability and inclusion.

www.stonewall.org.uk/vision-change

I've only read a bit, but I noticed that they want more trans included in sport (especially tw ) and are unhappy with sex by deception laws.

Although, I think after hearing about those pants (I refuse to use the word pant*) I might start believing in male and female brains - there's no way a women would want to be in the same room as those, would they?

Yes, forgot the lethargy. And the need for chocolate.

Could it also cause them extreme lethargy combined with insomnia, zits, anxiety and tearfulness? And shame. It's only the Real Woman Experience of they get shamed for everything that makes them suffer.

Does the menstruation kit come with PMT, nausea & bloating?

Ha! Empress
(And presumably something that causes pain three days straight)

Skipping over all the fake bits, the point about make-up and failing at femininity is interesting. My mother was very anti-make up so I did not learn properly. I was kind of intrigued that a colleague of mine gave her 13 year old DD make up lessons for her birthday (said colleague does not wear make up at all). On one hand it seemed a good idea to learn properly, on the other, my feminist side was a bit . That said, I tried to interest DD and totally failed. She looks lovely anyway, and is totally accepting of who she is and how she looks in a way which I find refreshing.

It all seems very bizarre to me, to go to such lengths to 'play' at being women. I am kind of having a reaction against being overtly feminine these days, I am a woman, I don't need to add feminine trappings.

Combined with the Masturbator where the head of your penis is your Clitoris! You can masturbate as a girl and urinate with it on too!!! Large Vaginal Opening which creates a larger Sheath. And you can have a Menstrual option added. This allows one to have the appearance of a menstrual flow

They also have one with an 'intact hymen' which comes with a bottle of latex 'so you can lose your virginity over and over again'

I got sucked in by morbid fascination. Now I'm going to bleach my eyeballs.

Oh dear. I am not going to Google anything further as I already had to look up the vagina panties and then accidentally left it in my phone browser so my DS fleetingly thought I was looking at photos of fanjos

Anyway, even looking at the vagina panties and reading the adverts didn't help me to understand them. And the answers here make me not want to investigate further. I find this all quite painful and disturbing in a way that I can't articulate.

Does the menstruation kit come with PMT, nausea & bloating?

I knew I had to stop when I read the words "I've just bought a V-String with menstuation kit"

I can't lie, this condition must be awful. I'm reading about young men whose lives are blighted by it.

And yes, I do find it yuck. It is absolutely reducing a woman down to a plastic vagina.

And its got nothing to do with women.

It makes me more and more convinced that the first recourse should be psychological therapy. This seems like an expensive, clunky, painful, non-solution to me.

Eeeeew!! That. Is. All. I did the same Datun

CharlieSierra

Okay, I took one for the team and looked it up. Mostly yes, you're quite right, they seem to be something that goes over the top of the penis. It hides the penis and...well I don't know what next. Seems a bit pointless to me. Unless it's so you can look in the mirror, endlessly.

I have read somewhere though, that you can get them with a hole at the back so that the neovagina can be penetrated. I can't find that anywhere now though.

Look, I'm not usually confused about these things but can someone explain to me how the vagina panties make penetrative sex possible for someone with a penis? I might have misunderstood this, I assumed they were for show rather than in any way 'functional'

or they are penetrated in a faux vagina made in the panties?

This is my assumption. Although, I believe you can push through further (sorry!) into the neo vagina. They only have a few inches depth, so intercourse is never going to be the sort of thing that a hetero couple experience.

I'm thinking of women I've seen on style and beauty threads (yes i do S&B and FWR blush) who have said they don't try with their appearance for a fear of being ridiculed for trying but failing.

I think for most hetero women who fail at femininity, it is a combination of not caring enough to learn, and not being able to do it well. Like, when I was a child, I just had better things to do than practicing to paint my face, and when I realized that this is apparently a necessary life skill for women, my peers were already past the badly-applied-makeup stage, and I would have looked ridiculous had I tried.

Also, I don't understand how they urinate "like a woman"?

Probably by sitting on the toilet, as women everywhere have tried to get the men living with them to do for centuries?