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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

767 replies

dorade · 09/03/2017 10:13

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

  1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.
  1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.
  1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

OP posts:
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GardenGeek · 10/03/2017 00:32

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scottishdiem · 10/03/2017 00:31

Good campaigning works best these days based on facts and figures but sometimes the most effective works on the feels (see Brexit).

There needs to be more awareness among women about this issue and the threat to the idea of what a women is. Basically a campaign that asks "if there is a penis, is that person a woman?" as a start. I know that some will want to jump in at the deep end and proclaim lots about glands and chromosomes but a simple message is a start and is effective. Shouting you were born a man so you are a man isnt going to work. Trans is a valid identity. But claiming to be a woman when you are not, isnt. And stating things like genitalia, periods, wombs, certain glands, contraception problems are what make a woman and keep it simple.

Whilst true, academically structured arguments regarding ABC critical theories about XYZ arent going to be good in a sound bite. Yes, women are pushed down by a patriarchy and a society that acquiesces to violence by men so easily. But in a 30 sound bite opportunity on a radio all that does is open the door to trans being victims of crime as well.

Use the recent example of the weightlifter from new zealand. That just calls into question so much in terms of fairness.

Offer alternatives, dont limit a passport to M and F. We dont want to question peoples decision to not accept the identity society has put on them (dont start with the chromosome thing here please). Retain what it means to be a woman with that identity but recognise that some people are not able to see themselves in one (so are trying to jump into the other).

Challenge those who oppose with creepy fuck of things like the Cotton Ceiling - build campaigns with the lesbian community and include them in the identity of being a woman. Likewise bi women and women of colour.

Build other partnerships, even with those who are questionable when it comes to women. Like the religious who will no doubt share the key issue about a woman being a woman.

Be factual and be careful with the feels.

Thisisouting · 10/03/2017 00:29

That was me bev! Someone asked #isitok about transgender/ transable but I'm not sure it'll get picked up

I'm setting up a TERF Twitter account to join the fight and going to look into a face to face with my MP.

I willing to put up with the abuse if it means my daughter can grow up free of this bullshit!

We need to March or do something that attracts attention from the media they need to see how many of us support this!

MisDescamisados · 10/03/2017 00:24

Ive already written to my MP . No response , but she isn't exactly a gynephile .

Up for it though .

thedogsitter · 10/03/2017 00:22

There are a number of exemptions where services can be single sex only. We have to be vigilant and make sure that organisations do not contravene sex-discrimination laws when they make changes to align with gender reassignment discrimination laws.

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem
thedogsitter · 10/03/2017 00:13

In some circumstances where a single-sex space is needed it is not discrimination to exclude someone of the opposite sex even if they have a GRC.

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem
thedogsitter · 10/03/2017 00:09

Here is a very useful explanation of the legislation that currently protects womens spaces. It was written by a UK solicitor. Worth reading. theartofdissent.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/how-legislation-protects-women-only-spaces-and-services-an-overview-june-2016-1.pdf

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 00:04

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MeMyself1 · 10/03/2017 00:00

Pencils YYY "We could tweet the fuck out of their hashtag." Grin

BevGoldbergsSister · 09/03/2017 23:57

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Datun · 09/03/2017 23:52

We need to force an answer to 'what is the definition of a woman?'

I really can't see many women, however unaware they are of the wider issues, being happy with '...um, anyone who says they are'.

BevGoldbergsSister · 09/03/2017 23:34

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WitchingHour666 · 09/03/2017 23:30

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DianaMemorialJam · 09/03/2017 23:25

I need to set one up
I will do it tomorrow, if I pm you will you link me to the rad fems?

BevGoldbergsSister · 09/03/2017 23:16

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DianaMemorialJam · 09/03/2017 22:47

YES BEV!

I tried crocheting one but it went a bit wrong but I could probably still wear it. Grin

BevGoldbergsSister · 09/03/2017 22:29

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BevGoldbergsSister · 09/03/2017 22:27

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TulipsInAJug · 09/03/2017 22:27

Could someone (perhaps the OP) please write a template letter to send to MPs?

Thanks for starting this thread OP. I'm in.

Notafish · 09/03/2017 22:20

I'm keen to be part of something. I've felt furious but powerless these past few weeks. I'm in awe of the forthright women who publicly advance this cause on Twitter and in the media. I need to remain anonymous but I'm happy to make a second twitter account and have name changed here.

I think it is important to stay on the right side of the law and agree with defining our aims. What can still be fought for? Reading the Equality Act 2010, it's difficult to see what remains. I'd like some clarity on what the difference is, legally, in having a grc.

The trans umbrella is big and all have protected characteristic status without the need for a grc or any physical transition. Anyone who claims they are trans can be discriminated against. But there remain some exceptions e.g sports, accommodation, single sex services. If someone has a grc do those exceptions no longer apply?

There's an organisation called sense about science who are pushing the government to base their policy on evidence. Perhaps they'd be willing to pick apart the cps hate crime lesson plan.

DianaMemorialJam · 09/03/2017 22:19

Placemarking

In my current state I want to put my pussy hat on and storm the Houses of Parliament.

PencilsInSpace · 09/03/2017 22:15

Thanks, that is very helpful, Not. It sounds like people are safe to go and talk about their concerns, face to face with their MP, without being outed as a big old nasty terf to all their neighbours.

NotthePrimeMinister · 09/03/2017 22:09

Pencils yes the aeroplane toilets analogy got me too. An aeroplane toilet is a one out, one in single cubicle. In a regular public toilet, who know who's hiding behind doors?

As for confidentiality, an MP might sometimes disclose personal details in the course of responding to a constituent or helping them, but it would only be to personnel whose position dictates that they would also have to keep things confidential and any identifying details would not be broadcast or even stored. Sorry for being vague, I'm trying to be helpful without blatantly saying what I do and how I know this! You could of course give a false name or use an email address that doesn't give your name. Any MP would ask your address (or at least postcode) in order to ensure that you are their constituent.

I'm afraid I don't know much about policy documents.

SweetGrapes · 09/03/2017 21:59

And even aside from the bill on the 24th - surely it should be legal to teach pink/blue brain tosh at school.

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