Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

Anyway, ignore me. I'm derailing. I'll join other thread to discuss this.

The thing is Iris, the Equality law gives such protections that it is discriminatory to ask someone if they have a grc, and discriminatory to ask anything about their trans status. If a man presents as a woman and says their name is Julie, staff are obliged to go along with it. I don't see how staff can take each person on a case by case basis if they are being told it is unlawful to even mention their trans presentation.

I was being flippant and pondering how staff could use the proposed law to answer back and protect themselves.

anyone who feels like a woman can...

Please see my post above. 😀

As for being worried about not shaving ..........I see plenty of very hairy women about. How hairy is too hairy?😄

Yeah I've considered the possibility of IP and hacking my email but then I thought it's ridiculous just to post something gender critical!

Women went through more to secure our rights I can put up with the abuse if I have to in order to secure them for the future.

'sorry, I identify as a man today'
On two of the many threads mushrooming on Mumsnet I have previously explained that this a misunderstanding. Here it is again:

Neither the current nor the proposed bill allow this.

People have to go through a legal process to change their gender for the purposes of employment, healthcare, passports, birth certificates.

Self identification in the proposed bill means that there is no requirement to participate in surgery or medical treatment of the gender dyspohoria THAT IS ALL IT MEANS. NO ONE CAN DECLARE THEMSELVES AS WOMEN FOR THE AFTERNOON OR ANY OTHER PERIOD AND BE TREATED AS SUCH.

I have used capitals so that people can read it (and remember it?) more easily.

Glad we cleared that up 😀

The dogs I see what the legal stuff says but a poster on the other thread from NHS mh services posted a copy of the information they are being forced to follow, that says anyone who feels like a woman can now access female mh hospitals and that they may not shave etc but that females who complain have to be kicked out.

Maybe you could check that thread & pm her the legal stuff?

I'm in too. This has playing on my mind for a while now. I had written to my MP last Dec and got a reply back going on about how equality is needed and one set of rights will never trump another etc etc
.... then the last para says how the govt directive is for prisons to hold people according to the gender they identify with.... I was shocked because till then I thought it was all hypothetical and not a done deal.

Whilst it is great to see parents interested in and passionate about PSHCE education it is important that we all know what the facts are.

1. Most schools are required to provide sex and relationship education as part of the PSHCE programme (please see image for detailed information)
2. Other than broad statements such as 'sex and relationships', 'HIV and AIDS' there is no mandatory content.
3. Schools choose the specific content and packs that they deliver. This means that the CPS pack will not be 'hitting schools', or imposed on teachers and students in the way that many posters believe. It is also important to look at the pack itself and to seek more objective analysis than that provided by an organisation whose specific mission is to challenge and prevent any questioning of gender as a simple fact of female or male.

As there is already an awfull, but fully signed i believe petition out their on the bill mIght it be worth creating a petition against the cost pack?

There are countries which already allow self identification. Should we look to them to see what that has meant negatively for women?

Even if self identification does not go ahead, there is much to fight, especially the indoctrination of kids. We need to find out what laws and guidelines we can use. Who or where can unethical teaching resources be referred to? If a school has a child declaring themselves as trans and they contact the recommended transgender organisation for guidance, is what they are being told adhering to laws? Do we have any teachers here?

My workplace, biggest employer in country, released guidance for dealing with trans patients. The tone of the guidelines bother me greatly as there's no acknowledgment at all of women's rights. It says where intimate searches need to be carried out (mental health staff) the trans person is entitled to ask for the staff members sex to match the gender they identify with. I'm wondering if self I'd cones in; that staff member can refuse and say ' sorry, I identify as a man today' It does acknowledge a ftt might want a woman to search them if they haven't yet transitioned physically.In this section, it doesn't mention, I think deliberately, the prospect of a mtt person not having physically transitioned. And it doesn't see it relevant to consider that female staff might not feel comfortable. It's all about the feelings and desires of the trans person.

Sorry for ramble. Can't wrote well on phone. My point is all these guidelines are locally produced and make it easier for misinformation to infiltrate an organisation
and more difficult to challenge as no-one wants to risk their job. Very clever trans lobby.

And it makes my blood boil that ordinary women on a mother's chat board have to talk about masking our ip and ghost accounts because we are SCARED.

Or VPN cheat software which is easy to do, so you are set up as being in another country in terms of your IP (I use this for watching british tv when I'm abroad!)

Your ip can be tracked too. If you really want to go anonymous you need to use an internet cafe or several

boldly I created a new email and a new Twitter account which is linked to that account.

I've used a non identifying profile picture and handle.

Hopefully that's enough.

Thank God for this thread.

I've been going out of my mind and feel utterly powerless. DD (14) has fallen out with me because of this. School have obviously done a good job on her.

I'm not a radical feminist. I'm not a radical anything but this is just nonsense. How can a man know that it feels like a woman? Hell, I don't know what it feels like to be a woman, just what it feels like to be me. I can't claim to know what it feels like to be a different woman any more than I know what it feels like to be a cat.

However statistics show that men, XY, with testosterone and born with a penis commit the bulk of violent crime, including rape.

The sexes are different in the way we function and we need privacy and safety.

I'm very much wiling and able. I just need guidance and perhaps a template letter to send to my MP.

MN is huge and multifaceted. We need figureheads and a legitimate way of funding.

Whatever we decide, I'M IN!

We probably need to move to a closed forum.

Agree with everything you say girlsscout. Especially questioning the meaning of sex as a protected characteristic if there's no meaningful way to define what sex means.And agree we need to challenge where the law is currently not being applied correctly by trans organisations and those writing guidelines.

I agree that we need an organised campaign. I see this bill as enormous threat to women. Many women do not understand how this bill impacts on women rights. I think this is because women are raised to be kind and defer to men. But now is the time to protect the rights that our sisters fought so hard for.

Sorry, really what I'm saying ^^^ is we need a manifesto, a briefing and a strategy.

Great thread

Several thoughts occur - we need legal advice, we need a legal briefing and any petition ideally should be drafted by a lawyer, I think one or two of the women's groups I'm in are already looking at getting legal clarification. I think before any materials etc are produced we'd need to be absolutely water tight legally

As far as I understand it (and forgive me as I'd been reading this all over so had repeated it myself) SEX will not be deleted in the new bill, it will remain a characteristic, but gender reassignment will be replaced with gender identity, thus rendering all the sex based legal protections meaningless as sex just becomes something you identify as. The result is the same, sex in any meaningful way will be gone, but one will not replace the other. I'd really like some clarification around all of this, but that's what I read yesterday.

This thing overlaps with harrassment legislation (I stupidly commented on a newspaper article on FB, my FB is locked down, but I still got a torrent of hideous threatening PMs which was very unpleasant, unwanted repeated contact over social media is actually a crime, other more high profile women have had a horrible horrible time of it), human rights and things like the UN's CEDAW which the UK is signed up to, I'd like clarification on how it all fits together

We need a figure head, or we need several, someone like Jenni Murray (not sure she could cos of her job) or JK Rowling or someone who isn't immediately written of as a 'man hating feminist' - my mum is not a feminist but the penny has dropped on this issue. Also hate to say it we need MALE voices, women don't get listened to, but men do. Someone like Grayson Perry or some gender crit man. Also there are plenty of gender crit transsexuals, we need those on the team. We also need MONEY. We might have to find a lead organisation or form an organisation. Just thinking out loud here. But if we crowd funded a legal test case (say, girl guides) donors would need to be reassured the money was going to a legitimate organisation.

HOW we organise is tricky, as it's difficult to get things done spread across the net, but it's not really safe to out ourselves or have a conference or whatever. There must be a way of better coordinating our efforts without attracting every geek, freak, weirdo MRA troll

I agree that the actual bill itself is the end of the line, but there is plenty of stuff already happening that I don't think is legal (can the green party really call us non males and uterus bearers) and I'd really really like more scrutiny brought to bear on these Trans orgs spreading this misinformation, particularly if they are registered with the charity commission because there are RULES. Charities are not allowed to be political for instance.

Oh and come the feminist revolution, not only would I like to stop this nonsense, I'd like 'woman' to be come a legally defined protected characteristic and misogyny to become a hate crime.

WOLF in the USA are doing this (women's liberation front) - is there a similar organisation in the UK?

This sounds like a great idea. That cps document tipped me over the edge! Unbelievable that that shit is used in schools.

I've never used Twitter. How can you make yourself anonymous? Presumably the Twitter handle needs to be non-identifying. Is the account linked to an email address?

Have been following all the recent threads with interest, this one in particular.

I would like to protest but would be too scared for my job
What about some form of 'virtual' or 'in absentia' protest. For example, a downloadable template of a female bathroom door figure that you could colour in, write comments/ protests on, then send off and they all get stuck up somewhere?
I think something visual to show just how many women have a problem with all this (but are too scared to speak out) would be really powerful and that is hard to do on twitter etc.

Good idea, I'm creating a twitter acc soon!

Im happy to compile a list of all our Twitter accounts.

I was thinking if everyone PMs me their Twitter handles Iver the next few days I can make one long list of our Twitter names and then PM the list out on Monday. Perhaps we can also share Twitter handles for the gender critical women we follow if people want to include those in PMs too?

I've never organised or took part in any kind of activism so don't know if what I'm suggesting is helpful so if it's not a good idea Oleasevdont be afraid to tell me.