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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

767 replies

dorade · 09/03/2017 10:13

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

  1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.
  1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.
  1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

OP posts:
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FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse · 10/03/2017 11:17

Another "interested but scared" here.

Every woman I speak to shares my views. Utter bemusement about what "feeling like a woman" means.

FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers · 10/03/2017 11:16

I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet so I am placemaking to read later and offering support if I can.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 10/03/2017 11:15

I think a webchat with Caroline Lucas would be like the one with Jess Philips & Flick Drummond only more so. Exactly like a webchat with a member of the Whatever Equality Party or Maria Miller.

The Greens have demonstrated their lack of support for women on plenty of occasions. We'd get a meaningless platitude at some point, then get more & more frustrated about being ignored and all get banned for barracking.

MercyMyJewels · 10/03/2017 11:14

I'm in. Great thread, thanks for starting it

Ignore the trolls

Pepvixen · 10/03/2017 11:14

Someone asked about the legal status of guidance. It's not illegal to fail to follow guidance. However, if uou do follow guidance it hoves you a 'safe harbour ' so you will be safe from legal challenge.

The Guidance on providing services to trangender customers is terrifying and says to treat part time cross dressers as women. Service providers don't have to follow this but they have a strong legal incentive to.

Link to the guidance here www.transgendertrend.com/uk-transgender-rights-legislation/

PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 10/03/2017 11:12

Brilliant Bev, will definitely listen out for that.

CoolJazz · 10/03/2017 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/03/2017 11:11

Place marking.

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 11:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exWifebeginsat40 · 10/03/2017 11:09

i'm pretty sure this is how Stormfront got started.

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 11:07

Thanks Cooljazz I will do my best, but do not know her personally.

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 11:06

But just one last thing.
If anyone had read the post where I discussed intersex they would have understood that I was using intersex to illustrate the complexities of gender identity. I was not suggesting that the community or any individual thereof supports trans community arguments or is engaged in trans activism.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/03/2017 11:05

I'm wondering if amongst us all we can find some really proactive and creative ways of creating resistance. I'm thinking of gender critical books aimed at very young children, training resources and collections of lifestories about being tomboys or similar?

PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus · 10/03/2017 11:04

Thanks for the Feedback heads up Bev. Wonder if any MNers contributed in the end.

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CoolJazz · 10/03/2017 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 11:02

Signing off for now. Have other stuff to do. 💻📆

YetAnotherSpartacus · 10/03/2017 11:02

Ok can we all agree to ignore iris?

YES PLEASE!!!!

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 11:01

Caroline Lucas would be an interesting person to hear from too. More diverse the better 😉

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 11:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 11:00

Pagenotfound

Are you familiar with the concept of controlling information according to one's political agenda? It is not part of a healthy democracy.

Imagine telling people what they should and should not read, sounds very authoritarian to me. Can't you trust people to make their own minds up about what to read?

CoolJazz · 10/03/2017 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iris65 · 10/03/2017 10:56

How is answering a question about how to define a woman derailing the thread?

How is providing factual information regarding the gender recognition legislation(current and proposed) derailing?

How is providing facts about the CPS education pack and PSHCE education derailing?

Awkward silence..........

BevGoldbergsSister · 10/03/2017 10:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.