Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

It may look to others like we are opposing a harmless civil rights group, but this not the case. This is why I try to say the trans ideology or queer theory ideology when possible. I sometimes refer to them as queer theory adherents if they say they are trans, and queer theory believers if they are supporters. This places them in the same position as religious people, and opens their beliefs up to question.

Framing it this way encourages people who have blindly backed it to feel they have to justify why they support this new ideology. This is often effective, because once they start to try and justify it, then it becomes clear that it is based on nothing but regressive stereotypes and victorian notions of "brain sex", and the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

This is of course why its adherents accuse us of saying they don't exist, because the "identity" is created out of whole cloth. It is not based on objective facts like your actual sex, the colour of your skin, who you sleep with etc., this ideology is more akin to a religion.

legocaltrops
yep looks like you are right the cps link is not working. Dare I hope its because theyve already had lots of angry people writing to them! Dont know whether to send letter now. What do others think?

legocaltrops
I accessed about 4pm on my lap top to do my letter and it was fine.I will try it on phone

I've got a feeling that CPS document has been removed. I can't access it on my phone or tablet & DH has tried on his as well.

'Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?'

The current trans activist agenda is extreme; it is fundamentalist in its opposition women's rights, so as Hemlock pointed out there is no real difference.

I think it is crucial that we are clear that we reject the whole ideology of gender identity: it's a doctrine built on sexism, homophobia and a creationist-like denial of science and material reality. It's no good trying to hedge our arguments to try to prove that we aren't 'transphobic' or say that we just oppose the more irrational elements of it – the whole thing is irrational, and trans activists are demanding women's total submission to their agenda. We need to be just as resolute in resisting them, and we can't do that unless we coherently oppose the whole edifice of 'gender identity'.

As Witching put it:

There is no way around it we have to challenge the ideology and the people who use these arguments. We have to do this with the facts about biological sex and by pointing out the idea that stereotypes and feelings make someone the opposite sex is deeply misogynistic.

Yes, and I would also say that linguistic control is a key battleground in this debate. We need to resist the Orwellian restructuring of language around sexual biology and speak as plainly as we can: we can't discuss any of the issues rationally while we are referring to men as 'she' and 'transgender women' and women as 'female assigned at birth'. I know it's often difficult to do these days as many media outlets impose censorship for gender wrong-speak (Mumsnet will delete posts for 'misgendering'), but, where we can, we need to point out that transwomen are male and even (whisper it) m*n.

Do we know exactly how many schools so far have used the CPS stuff?

Also I wondered why exactly someone's job would be at risk for tweeting - unless they're calling for violence or inciting hatred, surely being rational and making it clear that these are personal views based on scientific fact is ok? I've already been tweeting about this and I've had exchanges with Paris lees and India Willoughby (who blocked me immediately for asking a simple question) but not a lot of hate weirdly.

Just realised the resources stUfford there is ALOT on yt also. Lots from TRA's but lots shoots themselves in the foot showing how rediculous they are (which surely ps off lgb ppl & anyone with gender dysphoria) and the likes of magdalen burns posts lots of vlogs & yt, like twitter etc, gives more suggested to view/follow/like etc. Some of mb vlogs have hundreds of likes and only the odd dislike which is comforting

Well many people are activists campaigning vociferously for many things. It just occurred to me that what we are fighting against is an extremist ideology disguised as campaigning for liberal tolerance. Most people would be wary of extremists, fewer people wary of activists - just might help get the message across? Very new to this sort of thing and I have no experience of campaigning or PR!!! So just a thought.

Another lurker here. I found this forum by accident a couple of weeks ago when I was wondering if I was alone in thinking it was wrong to encourage children to think of themselves as transgender because they did not conform to rigid sex-role stereotypes. We do need to get organised on this, because the transactivist message is the only one that most people see.

Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?

Is there a difference?

Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?

"I think that it's a bit early to start writing off the gay male community as allies."

There are some gay men that can see some of the harms of the ideology. There was the "drop the T" petition a couple of years ago, which pointed out exactly what was happening to children. It was fairly well circulated, though was hammered in the gay press and most gay men dismissed it. Whilst there is pockets of gay men that disagree with the transing of kids, they are not representative of gay men as a whole. I think it is important to remember that this ideology is part of queer theory which is promoted by gay men.

I just think we need to build up a strong base first before we try and persuade those that are harder to convince. I'd suggest targeting groups that already have doubts about it first, as they will be the easiest to get support from. People like mothers of young children and adolescents, lesbians and older women, many in these categories already have serious doubts about it, but don't feel they can do anything about it. They need to be alerted that they can do something about it and be made aware of the campaign. I think after we have good numbers of them on board, then would be the time to focus on the harder to convince groups like libfems and gay men.

I'm a mn lurker who has now signed up. And thanks for all wise words on protecting women's rights and highlighting issues around gender identity. I came across transactivist stuff probably a couple of years ago and went through the disbelieving then outrage phases and now in the "over my dead body will this happen" phase. And the idea of being on twitter is good. It's where I found brilliant women discussing the issue, like Rebecca Really Cooper, Stephanie Davies-Ari, Meghan Murphy. It's so difficult to discuss. I only do with women over 50! There needs to be a proper public debate on this. All political parties here in Scotland are signed up to change law to gender identity (well, haven't checked Scottish Tories, but figure Maria Miller represents their view). Ridiculous that parties can have manifesto commitments that can't be publicly debated

Tulips this link has a good summary of points you might like to raise with your mp

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-identity-rights-of-the-child/

lume, I asked for a template letter from someone who has already written to their MP. I'd really appreciate you (or anyone else) posting that here. I will send to my MP who apparently prides himself on answering every email.

Re having one 'action' thread, maybe add 'write to your MP' to the 'to do' list.

"I have had some success raising these issues with my gay friends. The argument that worked best was the transing of gnc children. Several of my friends insisted they were girls for years, Barbies, pink and all that shit. All now very happy gc gay men. When I pointed out they would probably been considered trans now it did help to change attitudes."

I've had exactly the same experience. Also found they are just as appalled by the "cotton ceiling" as we are.

I think that it's a bit early to start writing off the gay male community as allies.

I have had some success raising these issues with my gay friends. The argument that worked best was the transing of gnc children. Several of my friends insisted they were girls for years, Barbies, pink and all that shit. All now very happy gc gay men. When I pointed out they would probably been considered trans now it did help to change attitudes. I still have some work to do as obviously having experienced discrimination and abuse for being gnc kids they have a great deal of empathy for others going through similar things but I do like to think I have sown the seeds of doubt.

I'm interested/ place marking. I know quite a few RL women of similar minds.

Yes a dedicated thread for links to proper information would be great. I also have hundreds of links I've been emailing to myself for ages now.
These are two links that I sometimes circulate. The first is a bit sly, because it's Kimberley Crenshaw, the US feminist critical race theorist who first coined the term "intersectionality" I just suggested it to a lecturer I know, who told me her students were really interested in it and asked loads of questions. It totally interrupts the idea that intersectional feminism is all about trans and introduces actual, real life, legal, legislative, discriminatory intersections related to race, social class, ability and so on. Crenshaw is very listenable. She speaks simply and is easy to understand. She does mention trans women at some point but the talk is focused on women and girls, especially WOC.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-DW4HLgYPlA
The other link I've been brave enough to circulate to a few lecturers, but not brave enough to get it out in front of students yet, is Rebecca Reilly Cooper speaking on an Australian radio show about why gender as identity is so incoherent. Cooper speaks clearly and precisely about this and reasons it through using philosophical methods but again it is listenable and not difficult to understand. I think she is great and one of the few people I know of who can articulate the problems calmly and well. She gets a lot of stick on twitter so support her if you can.
rebeccarc.com/2016/09/26/abc-radio-philosophers-zone-interview-on-gender-identity/

PencilsinSpace - the CPS document dates from 2014. It's unclear how many schools it's been used in (it's originally based on work done by CPS North West). They are currently updating their schools packs - right NOW is the time to intervene to tell them that we want schools packs that focus on sexual harassment of girls in schools (there was a recent report showing this was a massive problem), and which give sensible messages about setting clear boundaries and trusting your instincts about people. Oh, and also telling them that their previous trans modules (hopefully soon to be shelved) were full of inaccurate, manipulative, abusive rubbish.

Yes Prawn! Please post links!