Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

767 replies

dorade · 09/03/2017 10:13

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

  1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.
  1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.
  1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
DrinkFeckArseGirls · 12/03/2017 11:52

Who do we send our Twitter names to? OP or OverthinkingSpartacus?

Igneococcus · 12/03/2017 11:47

I hadn't even thought about it from a Scottish politics perspective. I'll write to our MP but I don't hold out much hope.

Skooba · 12/03/2017 11:27

Please come back with what MPs have said, perhaps without naming names. I was accused of accusing T people of being rapists, when I raised the issue of safety in women's toilets, by my local SNP UK MP.

RunningWild12 · 12/03/2017 11:20

BetsyM00 The lily white MercyMyJewels
I complained that the Volunteer Action Fund (VAF) used the phrase "sex (gender)" when outlining the 9 protected characteristics under Equality Act. (they administer funds that I was interested in applying for). The response I got was that the Equality Unit of Scottish Government had decided on this because otherwise some people would be unhappy. Since when the law was open to interpretation by civil servants on the basis of some people's happiness? We need to organise a strong response to the consultation and make sure groups like women's and girls' sports clubs respond. Not sure how to do this. Use social media obviously. Be so good if we could have proper meetings to debate this publicly without fear of threats of disruption or being branded phobic or bigoted.

CoolJazz · 12/03/2017 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

enoughisenough12 · 12/03/2017 10:12

Perhaps another focus should be the press and their reluctance to report news involving transgender issues openly and honestly. It was this article about Lauren Jeska that was my wake up moment:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

This was a transgender woman fell-runner who stabbed a British Athletics official (and 2 others) over fears that his investigation might result in UK Athletics revoking her titles if she was found to have had an unfair advantage over women.
The BBC, Guardian and Independent completely failed to mention any of this - I picked it up from the Telegraph. When I complained to the BBC they told me 'it hadn't been mentioned in court'.
As we now know, this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of 'manipulating news'.

I found the IPSO (Independent Press Standards Organisation) has issued special guidance for reporting transgender issues and heavily references transgender campaigning organisations.

www.ipso.co.uk/media/1275/guidance_transgender-reporting.pdf

I had a look but couldn't find any other guidance on reporting sexual violence, children, LGBT, refugees etc etc.

Why has IPSO issued specific guidance for transgender issues but nothing for any other vulnerable group?

Raisinbrain · 12/03/2017 10:03

Hi, long time reader and lurker here.
I just read something on Facebook, a woman saying that she has an alternative male persona online because she can express opinions about things using the male persona without getting hate mail and rape threats.
Thought it might be an idea for those making new twitter profiles?

Thelilywhite · 12/03/2017 08:36

betsythanks for links. I had no idea that organisation existed up here.
Mercy
My letter is to my snp mp too (third time of writing!) but I hadnt thought of writing to Nicola Sturgeon. Im off out for the day now so wont be keeping up but dont want to lose the momentum so would you mind sharing your letter and I will write to her as well?

MercyMyJewels · 12/03/2017 08:17

That should read "I don't know Mhairi's position on this"

Disappearing words

MercyMyJewels · 12/03/2017 08:16

Betsy
I wrote to my (SNP) MP and also Mhairi Black, who is also a lesbian. Mhairi's position on this, but I have always been impressed with her and hope that she at least gives the issue some thought. I am going to write to Nicola Sturgeon, just drafting the letter at the mo'.

BetsyM00 · 12/03/2017 01:09

I also found this - which says there are plans to consult on reforming the Gender Recognition Act by summer 2017.

BetsyM00 · 12/03/2017 01:02

I know that Maria Miller's private bill is for a UK law but I've just been looking at the situation in Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon planned radical changes to gender recognition laws after the last election but I can't see anything proposed on parliament.scot.

The only thing I found was an Equal Opportunites Committee report which has so much wrong with it I don't know where to begin! It mentions trying to change the law in Scotland first and make it more progressive to give a good example to the rest of the UK.

Does anyone have any other info on the current Scottish position?

I'll be writing to my MSP as well as my MP.

StillSeekingResponsibleAdult · 11/03/2017 23:06

I have only ever made this work over local issues, but there is definitely leverage in making politicians realise you have numbers on your side.

We had a petition signed by over 1000 people, then a fb page liked by several 100, which the stats showed had a post reach of 1000s in a week and then a push for individuals to email the person in charge, which resulted in 1000s of emails.

These numbers were achievable on a local issue. I'm sure it would make an impact if every single person who felt strongly emailed Maria Miller cc their local MP. They won't necessarily look at fb, or twitter, accounts which don't interest them, but they can't ignore 1000s of emails landing in their inbox.

Fb and twitter are only tools for making people take the actions which change things, they don't change anything used in isolation.

Thelilywhite · 11/03/2017 22:43

Thanks witching I will do that

mirandayardley · 11/03/2017 22:39

I agree with everything the OP says. Some things to add:

1 transgenderism, porn and prostitution are intertwined, this should never be forgotten; and
2 transgender has no one central philosophy or etiology, yet they manage to organise and are making progress in this because they have common causes and rhetoric to hide behind, e.g. 'Trans women are women'. Unity is strength.

WitchingHour666 · 11/03/2017 22:25

Thelilywhite, your letter sounds very good, as a suggestion though I would add a short description of autogynephilia. I also would avoid links to wikipedia, I would try and provide academic sources when possible, such as this one on autogynephilia:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Ray_Blanchard/publication/20361233_The_Concept_of_Autogynephilia_and_the_Typology_of_Male_Gender_Dysphoria/links/0deec525d3322d096b000000.pdf

CharlieSierra · 11/03/2017 22:21

For anyone who is planning a letter to their MP, template letters are usually ignored, especially if you use writetothem. Even if you use a template to make sure you cover all the salient points, do switch things around and use your own words if you want them to read it and respond.

RubyGoat · 11/03/2017 21:59

Thanks, I can see it again now. Don't know why but the links definitely weren't working earlier. Weird.

Thelilywhite · 11/03/2017 21:52

its ok thanks roquefort i can get it on my laptop just not my phone

Thelilywhite · 11/03/2017 21:37

I think some posters up thread asked for a template mps letters. Here is one i copied from bits of several others with a few points if my own.Not going to send and email it till monday so feel free to comment
Dear Mp
I am writing to you again regarding the review of the Gender Recognition Act, as Maria Millers bill will have its second reading in the House of Commons on 24th March.
In most instances I am happy to support the right of transgender people to live as they wish and I am aware of the challenges they face. However I am of the opinion, along with many other women, that our interests and those of girls are not being represented in the debate about transgender equality. Therefore I would like you, as my MP, to take a stance for your female constituents.
Firstly,regarding the matter of self-declaration to legally change gender. This is far removed from the current system when, if a person wishes to change their legal gender they must be over 18 and be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. They also have to have lived in their desired gender role for at least two years and intend to do so for life. Unfortunately the Committee’s report called for the removal of all three of these criteria.
It is this proposed self declaration that troubles me most ,as if this should become legally binding in law, anyone could legally become a member of the opposite sex, without the need for any form of social or medical transition. Therefore,any man could claim transgender status to gain access to sex-specific spaces and services, whether he genuinely thinks of himself as a woman or not and no matter how he dresses. This could include men who are attracted to women ( or girls), transwomen who have not had full surgery (currently about eighty percent) or men who are AGP. Questioning his motives would be classed as a hate crime under the Equalities Act 2010. Therefore self declaration will put at risk women in prisons,psychiatric wards, hospitals, womens refuges and even competitive sport.
In certain situations society obviously distinguishes between biological men and biological women for reasons of safety, dignity, privacy and fairness and so there are serious problems with biologically born men 'identifying' as women.

Redefining “sex” (a biological reality) to mean “gender identity” (a subjective feeling) makes men legally indistinguishable from women resulting in the independent legal existence of women becoming non-existent. So not only is the safety of women and girls compromised but male violence can be hidden by being attributed to women. Furthermore all kinds of discrimination against women and girls become invisible. The prison service is one area where this becomes very clear. Maria Miller’s recommendations would mean that any man convicted of rape has the right to be housed in a women’s prison just by self-identifying as a woman. Therefore, it is clear to me that these proposals place female prisoners at an intolerable level of risk. Maria Miller has denied any clash of rights but there are already numerous examples of violent males being housed in female prisons, for example Lauren Jeska and possibly Lisa Hauxwell. I have included some links at the bottom of this letter which I feel are pertinent.
My second concern is around the increasing number of children and young adults seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. This is often based simply on a preference for toys, clothes and behaviours usually associated with members of the opposite sex and which are stereotypical. I am fearful about the effect this push towards the concept of ‘gender identity’ will have on childrens and young adults mental and physical health. Particularly worrying is the prescribing of possibly dangerous puberty blockers.Indeed there is a recent upward trend in teenage girls wishing to trans.
The vulnerability of women occurs because of biology, not identity. This is why sex is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act 2010. The implications of replacing biological sex with self-identified gender are far reaching. There must be careful consideration, including a full impact assessment before any changes are made. I am of the opinion that this has not happened. I am asking you to take these points into consideration and work to find a solution for trans-gender people that does not have a detrimental impact on the safety of women’s and girls, nor on their hard won achievements such as in sport and careers.
I hope I have been able to help you understand that women are not being transphobic when they raise concerns about these changes as Maria Miller implied, but have real and valid concerns.

Yours Sincerely
Thelilywhite
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/fell-runner-lauren-jeska-admits-attempted-knife-murder-of-britis/
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul
/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk
thelibertarianrepublic.com/transgender-mma-fighter-destroys-female-opponent/
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-soldier-chloe-allen-is-first-woman-on-british-army-frontline_uk_57dd5ae6e4b028e52a10d40d
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology
www.ibtimes.co.uk/lisa-hauxwell-crimewatch-tv-appeal-trace-transgender-rapist-who-may-be-living-man-

WitchingHour666 · 11/03/2017 21:19

"Could you explain to me what queer theory is?"

Queer theory is an academic theory that incorporates many different things, from analysing texts, to social and political concepts. In its political form it is built on postmodernism, mainly Judith Butlers writings, as well as sexual libertarianism, and individualism. It's followers think that blurring the boundaries between categories of things is the key to equality. It is very individualistic and prioritises the chosen identity of people. It's followers do not see people as categories of people, that are oppressed by other categories of people. Here is a talk that tries to explain it, and a link to Sheila Jeffreys book on it in PDF.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXHbrt3kvU

download1481.mediafire.com/ri4crg5c62vg/c18o13xluzhs81h/Unpacking+Queer+Politics+-+Sheila+Jeffreys.pdf

Thelilywhite · 11/03/2017 21:09

legotrops
Am still able to open the cps link on my lap top

WitchingHour666 · 11/03/2017 20:56

"It's no good trying to hedge our arguments to try to prove that we aren't 'transphobic'"

I agree I think women who are going to support the campaign against transgender ideology will need to accept they will be called a "terf" and "transphobic". It needs to be explained that this is not because they actually are a radical feminist, but because they are prioritising women's rights and safety above males feelings, as that is all radical feminists are actually doing in reality.

It needs to be understood that any woman who fights for females rights, and prioritises females in their activism is going to be called names by misogynists. If a woman tries to escape this by saying "I am not like those evil terfs", it will not save her from being targeted by misogynists. In fact what usually happens is ta's think they can then persuade a woman to change her course of action, by exploiting her desire to avoid being called slurs.

Datun · 11/03/2017 20:54

WitchingHour666

Could you explain to me what queer theory is? I've asked a couple of people and got different answers.

Swipe left for the next trending thread