Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

Hi! I came over here from FeministCurrent - someone linked this thread in particular. I joined specifically because you have a great feminist area going on. I am a radical feminist and this particular topic has been peeving me off to say the least for a long time. Haven't had time to read all of this thread yet and I need to get more acquainted with the rest of the forum but I just wanted to say I'm in. I want to act. I'm tired of just being angry.

Oh and I don't have kids but hopefully that's not a pre-requisite! Looking forward to talking to you all more!

Tweeted by @charlotteB1.

This tweet sums it up for me:

We need to dismantle the gender stereotypes that accompany the biology. Not delete the biology and just have the stereotypes.

I actually don't think there is any way back on self-identification, gender is after all a made up thing with an ever-changing definition. You can't identify it and so cannot prove or disprove it. No criteria to 'prove' someone is transgender will stand up to scrutiny.

I think what we need to fight for is the distinction between gender and sex and argue for sex to be the dividing point for protection.

And to argue that there is no need GRCs at all, if gender has nothing to do with sex, why do you need your gender 'recognised', you are what you are surely? It can't be to do with protection - you don't need a 'gay' certificate to be able to make a complaint about homophobia.

Yep. First born son transitions, does he lose out? Nah, he's a man, he can't be disadvantaged. Daughter transitions, does she become 'son' and beat her brother to the dosh? Nah, a man would lose out, that can't happen.
On the other hand, rapist transitions and moves to women's prison? Fine, only women are harmed by that. Man transitions and takes sporting title in women's category? Fine, only women lose out. In fact, man transitions, any scenario at all, women shut up, move over, don't even argue you vile transphobic bigots, and while you're at it suck my dick. In a nutshell.

Is the inheritance thing to do with the House of Lords and titles?

It is crap - things should be equal. But if you are going to change a certificate, then that should change your rights as well - such as inheritance. You can't pick and choose.

I'm not actually sure what happens if I get a GRC. I haven't got one yet because I can't afford the fee. I think the only thing it does is car insurance and life insurance - I don't know what effect it has on that though.

I'd forgotten about the inheritance thing. I read about it a couple of years ago and weirdly it was my peak trans moment. In terms of the effect on daily life, it's pretty inconsequential. It can't affect more than a tiny few FTT and those it might affect are not likely to end up in grinding poverty anyway. They are first born girls from wealthy, privileged families.

It was just such a blatant admission that the people men making these laws knew this was all total bullshit and didn't care as long as it didn't affect them. Women matter so little that they will cheerfully give away our rights for something that is total bullshit and which they know is total bullshit.

Is there a way of hiding previous crimes should someone be so inclined

I shouldn't think so. I imagine there will be a link / marker on passport / driving license / DBS / other ID to link names together and the past together.

Mind you, the police national computer may not be all reliable?

Thanks. Follow-up question (I really feel like my brain's not working today, so this might be a really stupid question):
How harmful is it if someone's previous gender doesn't show up in a DBS Disclosure check, as long as any previous crimes/reportable offences do appear? Is there a way of hiding previous crimes should someone be so inclined?

I think I'm right in saying some people have used a gender/name-change to hide crimes in the US, but it appears that's not possible here - even if the Gender Identity Bill gets passed.

Thank you WitchingHour.

CharlieSierra

Very telling. And another thing I wrote to my MP about.

As long as it's just women who are being disadvantaged no one gives a fuck. As soon as a man might miss out the law suddenly doesn't apply.

So a female can't identify as a male and take the inheritance. I wonder how many firstborn males identify as females and relinquish it? In fact, I'm not even sure that that situation is even accounted for in the legislation (because you know, why would they?)

The 'born in the wrong body' scenario is accepted as completely factual, definite and tortuous for the individual, until it comes to money, in which case it's deemed as nothing more than cynical exploitation.

Funny that.

The more I think about it, the more enraged I get. I'm going to bring this up more.

Same in England. A DBS check WILL link to previous names when carried out so if you have carried out a crime, it will come up on the check. What won't show up will be the PREVIOUS NAME or GENDER
Isn't it telling that the only thing previous gender is considered relevant to is inheritance.

This seems to imply that the disclosure will show anything that comes up under a previous name/gender, but won't show the previous name/gender

Same in England. A DBS check WILL link to previous names when carried out so if you have carried out a crime, it will come up on the check. What won't show up will be the PREVIOUS NAME or GENDER.

Does anyone have been any confirmation about the DBS checks?

I'm in Scotland (so a different vetting organisation) and the guidance gives a way for transgender applicants to apply without telling the organisation that they're trans, by submitting a copy of their GRC direct to Disclosure Scotland.

This seems to imply that the disclosure will show anything that comes up under a previous name/gender, but won't show the previous name/gender.

"Dbs checks too, if someone changes gender they don't show up past records do they?"

Will add it to the list.

"It would be good to add something about lesbians' right to have their sexuality and boundaries respected but I don't know how to word it."

I have included points about lesbians having the right to spaces and groups, and the right to refuse males sexual demands in the longer explanatory versions of demands C and D. Will try and get a website up ASAP.

"This probably sounds a bit out there, but it's apparently not that hard to set up a political party."

Sounds like a great idea.

"I feel nervous about the resources and discussions here disappearing if MN is heavily lobbied by trans activists such as andie and is compelled to react."

"Can someone with organisational skills compile them & email out or similar"

I have saved the links from the references thread and will put them on the website I'm starting, anyone can then access them and they won't be pulled. Additionally, I think having them all on one site, in an ordered manner makes it easier to find what you want.

I was so excited about the WEP when it was launched and would have voted for them until I read their manifesto and saw the stance on the trans issue - no longer the party for women as far as I am concerned, but yet another women's group that it trying to solve every problem with any tenuous link whatsoever to women and not achieving any of them. So disappointed that they claim to represent women - not me thanks (Sandi T was doing much more for feminism as the host of the News Quiz).

Rereading Sophie Walker's comments I would say the last sentence is complete nonsense, except in perhaps somewhere where tribal divisions still exist. Any street in UK has a pretty mixed bunch of passers by. We perhaps Choose to divide ourselves by choosing different beliefs or religion, that's a divisor imo and that is a choice, it's not inflicted by society. (though I'm no sociologist)

@Lauraalmer90

I think you are going to be disappointed by the response from politicians, mostly they evade and answer with vague things like equality is important for everyone blah blah
Sophie Walker (women's equality party) responded on a mumsnetwebchat -
A lot of you have asked about our position on trans, so I'm going to elaborate on that here and then hope to move on to all the other important issues I'd like to discuss with you

I am old fashioned enough to believe that one is not born a woman but rather becomes one. The process of becoming a woman is a messy one, filled with contradictions and influenced by many different factors, depending on where we are born, who our parents are, if we grow up in poverty or affluence, if we are able bodied or disabled, if we live in a war zone or somewhere relatively peaceful and so on. For some reason, every society also divides us into groups, depending on the colour of our skin, the shape of our genitals and often, on the accent that we speak with and the name that we bear

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/2617026-Webchat-with-Sophie-Walker-leader-of-the-Womens-Equality-Party-and-London-Mayor-candidate-Tuesday-19-April-at-noon

Hope you had your blood pressure tablets handy

Oh, I've just realised that Jane Fae admitted she doesn't know if he is or not.

I'm sticking with not.

Sorry for accidental misgendering. "She".

I expect it was most likely the trauma of being born in the wrong body that made him commit the horrible crime that he did. Perhaps there should be an appeal?

According to Jane Fae that's all wrong. It's not about whether Ian Huntley is male or female, he is definitely a transwoman, but some transwomen are just deplorable.

I remember very clearly Ian Huntley's case. Silly me, not realising that at the time he was literally a woman from birth and had absorbed all that misogyny and oppression reserved for women, and none of the male entitlement reserved for men.

I agree trans wings would be an excellent idea. Tara Hudson's mum said there needed to be more provision for Trans and was suggesting LGBT prisons but I think the LGB bit is unnecessary/unfair.

Lian Huntley is an exceptionally unfunny joke.

Trans prison wings are a good idea.

I would guess they would also be of no interest whatsoever to any male prisoners who were just trying it on.

I don't see the problem in putting a male to trans in a male prison any more than putting any other effeminate/feminine/gay males in prison - they probably all have a fearful time.

I don't think the answer is putting them in a female prison though - considering that all of these males - even post op male to trans are generally far stronger and more violent than females, (even if their delusion makes them believe they are totally different from their own sex).

Part of the rehabilitation of other women, biological females, does not include the likelyhood of being raped by lian huntley or other violent males.

I don't think it would make sense to put a post op transwoman in general male prision population, that doesn't mean the alternative is being put in with females though. They could provide all kinds of protections within a male prision. They could look at trans wings. It's unlikely the staff at a female prisions would be best placed to meet the needs of someone trans. A trans person will have specialist needs that are different from those of women, and men.