Girls' school allows pupils to identify as boys

If you're currently at Godolphin you were born in what? 2000ish?

With the greatest respect how would you know what went on in the 70s?

In 2014 Paulines were targeted by their uniform in a spate of muggings. Boys were advised to change out of their blazers before they left school.

The same has happened to other schools with uniforms...

There is no such way of dressing That's true to a large extent, but at the same time Caitlyn Jenner & Kellie Maloney, for example, now style themselves in a typically female way.

It's not about convincing you or anyone, it's about intention rather than effect.

There are plenty of girls who dress how they like without setting out to look or identify as masculine. But then there are girls who do and do.

Not sure about gender dysphoria jokes about fake beards...

In this context I was referring to girls who specifically styled themselves to look as if they were male because they identified as masculine.

But .. how?
What kind of clothes are considered exclusively male nowadays?
Suit and tie? That's bit overdressed for school ...hm, okay, probably not in the UK.

The only way of dressing that would convince me that the person in question identifies as boy, and is not just a girl wearing normal clothes, as one does, would be a fake hipster beard.

It will be interesting to see, Bev.

I'm wondering whether the boys' school would be so accommodating of boys who want to dress as girls. They have a uniform which would make it trickier.

Als, as a girls school would the school not be disciminating by refusing to accept trans pupils?

They'll probably be forced to accept male pupils, yes. Unless they manage to leverage class privilege.

Apparently, British nobility get out of having to give the proper titles to transmen ... though perhaps that is less to do with class and more to do with the fact that this might actually harm males - the only human beings whose wellbeing really matters.

In this context I was referring to girls who specifically styled themselves to look as if they were male because they identified as masculine.

Most teenage girls wear jeans.

I've been wondering about clothes, and peoples' perception of status or value that is attached to them. Whether it is a peculiarly British thing.

It happens here, too. Some schools tried to get it to stop by introducing a sort of uniform, even - but the same for girls and boys. Forcing girls to wear skirts would not be possible nowadays, people would just refuse.

But I personally didn't notice it, aside from people being bullied for extremely ill-fitting or weird clothes. I think it is more prevalent in the lower income families. Those who have enough money don't seem to feel a need to show that they have it. (Well. Except with cars. But those are owned by the parents, so ...)

vestal

I was listening to a conversation my teenage son was having with his German friend over school uniform.

My son's position was that it made for less bullying because no one had to keep up with fashion, or a 'hierarchy' of designer labels.

His friend was very nonplussed about this. Because it simply didn't happen in his school. Clothes were not used as a marker of anything in particular.

I heard the same thing last year when my son went on a French exchange. The French teacher told the pupils, do not take all your best designer gear, this isn't how it works on the continent. It's all fairly low key and no one cares.

I've been wondering about clothes, and peoples' perception of status or value that is attached to them. Whether it is a peculiarly British thing.

I wonder what this "dress as boy" is supposed to mean, too.

I wore trousers at school. Didn't have to apply for extra permission to "dress as boy" for that. Most girls wore jeans, it was just normal. (And I would never, ever, have consented to go to a school that forces me to wear skirts, anyway. Was horrified to find out this is still legal in the UK - if school uniform, it should be the same for everyone)

It was Mrs Brigstocke who oversaw the end of uniform in the mid 70s, and she who told us why she had, as above. But I think it was quite relaxed before that.

It's been non-uniform for decades, so I suspect the reasons why are lost in the mists of time. They do have a set games kit though.

Not really, they got rid of the uniform because it was identified as a target factor among pupils who had been mugged. That's what they told us anyway.

I think it sounds very sensible to be honest. For those who are struggling with dysphoria being able to present how they like will be a lifeline and for those who are hopping on the angsty bandwagon of being, like, SO misunderstood and totally woke, nothing will take the wind out of their sails faster than their school treating it as no big deal.

As long as they don't let any actual boys/transgirls into the school, I don't see a problem. But that's the question, is it? Do they really subscribe to the transnonsense, or do they just go along with what the pupils, who are actual girls and therefore actually qualify to be in that school, want?

For the girls it will be much easier to go back to normal / come to terms with being lesbians / whatever if they don't have to cope with the fact that they forfeited their place at this apparently very prestigious school for a lie and stupid fad.

So I think it is a good decision. IF the philosophy is actually that it is a school for children of the female sex, and gender identity has nothing to do with it.

It's St Paul's, they can do as they please and they'll STILL have every pushy parent in west London desperate to get their daughter in.

I think it sounds very sensible to be honest. For those who are struggling with dysphoria being able to present how they like will be a lifeline and for those who are hopping on the angsty bandwagon of being, like, SO misunderstood and totally woke, nothing will take the wind out of their sails faster than their school treating it as no big deal.

'Fully' I meant in the sense that any woman who has changed gender through surgery can ever be - ie has all the correct body parts.

Odd that the head is talking about it to the Sunday Times if the school genuinely sees it as nobody else's business.

has since had gender reorientation surgery and is now fully a man.

Well no, they are a woman with a penis who self identifies as a man.

BevGoldbergsSister: I have no idea whether the parents get any sex

If you mean do they get any say, again that is entirely their business and that of the school and the pupils concerned.