How should trans individuals be included in competitive sport?

No, it's not. Cross sex hormones aren't generally given before 18 but that's changing, but puberty blockers are.

'Transitioning young', would have to be before puberty, which kicks in about what 11-13? It's illegal to have puberty blockers before 18.

I know it's been discussed before but I can't find the right thread. Does anyone know at what age the various growth happens with regards to bone density, muscle mass etc? I'm aware transactivists are arguing that transwomen who have transitioned young won't have these advantages only testosterone levels, but this still seems unfair to me. Could anyone clarify?

Having read several press reports on this I am concerned that the slant on it seems very much towards the issue being draconian laws which have forced the student to compete with biological sex when they wanted to compete with boys.
I can't see any other option than sticking with birth sex and enforcing the same limits on performance enhancing drugs - meaning that this young person would be banned from competition. I don't think the question is how can we include transgender people in sport, but how can we keep sport fair in the face of this onslaught. Taking banned drugs rules you out, whatever the reason.

"Is it a non issue? How many people who are transgender want to compete competitively?"
A competitive person is a competitive person, regardless of whether they are male, female or transgender.

Lauren Jeska was a transgender fell runner.
Fallon Fox is a mixed martial arts fighter.

Those two spring to mind because they've been in the news, but I'm sure there are more. Competitive is competitive.

Those saying no, trans women should compete with men: logically, that means that trans men should compete with women. Which is what happened in the article I linked to in the OP. A FTM wrestler just beat all the female wrestlers in the state. It cuts both ways but neither works in the favour of the born-female athlete.

Yes logically transmen should compete with women. However, if taking performance enhancers like testosterone that give an unfair advantage then they do not compete. Basically you compete against your sex, but normal doping rules apply.

A separate group that includes transmen and transwomen could be made. But if not, then sorry you do not compete. It is a choice to take hormones, you have the option to stop and compete.

I understand that the girls in the competition refused to compete against this child and forfeited which is even sadder in my opinion.

Which ever way you cut it up it is going to be girls who lose. If you stick to people playing against their own sex, but allow a transitioning girl to be on testosterone for two years, that's unfair to all the other girls. If she fights in the male category, she will lose (again unfair to girls).

If it is a male transitioning, and fights girls as his preferred gender, the girls will lose - again.

Either compete with your own sex but without any drug intervention at all, or don't compete.

I don't understand how that child was allowed an exemption for testosterone under medical exemptions.

Like a PP says, DP plays competitively and has had to limit the medication he takes for his asthma because he knows it will count against him in testing. He's aware that if his asthma worsens he will have to stop playing his sport because the next level of drugs available are banned substances.

I understand that the girls in the competition refused to compete against this child and forfeited which is even sadder in my opinion.

It was the question about trans issues in sport that made me hit peak trans and is my absolute line in the sand. I simply cannot accept that anyone who was born male and has gone through a male puberty can be allowed to compete with women. As PPs have highlighted, testosterone levels are a completely blunt tool for use here - there are so many differences that hormonal intervention does nothing to impact; for example, skeletal differences in the pelvis creating different biomechanics for sports involving running and VO2 max for pretty much every sport. Taking oestrogen might superficially change body fat distribution on a male, but you can't roll back the changes that happened at puberty when a massive testosterone surge catapults a boy into an adult male physiology.

I think this could easily be turned into a positive thing for the trans community - how powerful a statement on gender diversity it would be if we saw trans women competing against men! Now that would really shake things up.

For FTM, no problem at all if they wish to compete in women's sports, but subject to exactly the same doping rules on testosterone, with no medical use exemptions because they're clearly open to being abused.

Well as an example. Jillian Bearden started living "as a woman" (just not sure what living as a woman means) about 2 years when her wife gave birth to their second child. Jillian placed 1st woman in Arizona's biggest cycle road race, her TW team mate placed 20th. They are part if a TW competitve team so will be interesting to see how they go.
www.google.co.uk/amp/tucson.com/sports/local/transgender-cyclist-is-top-female-finisher-at-el-tour-de/article_2c7d291f-4376-57a6-9578-3831353032bc.amp.html

I am surprised the testosterone that is used isn't being flagged as more of an issue.
My DS competes at a sport and knows from the time he has been 16 he is likely to be subject to random drug testing.
He won't take anything without checking it as the risks are too great.
I have just looked on the website they use to check ingredients on anything they take and testosterone is a prohibited substance.
(I obviously just looked generally)
Inhalers for asthmatics are limited to a certain number of puffs per 24 hours etc. Lemsip is banned (as there is caffeine?).
It is the athletes responsibility to know what goes in their bodies. There is a movement called 100%me.
The whole trans debate aside I would have thought the performance enhancing drugs make them ineligible to compete-as they would any athlete...

Sport, especially professional sport is massively competitive. I can see many people being pressurised to 'transition' for the duration of the Olympics, for instance.

Doping goes on on a massive scale.

It won't just be regular transpeople, it will be, again, people taking advantage of it.

Crumbs1 they don't need surgery. It plays no part in declaring yourself trans. You can take hormones too without having surgery. Taking those hormones would apparently be for medical reasons, therefore allowing competition.

I think there should be a positive place for trans people to play sports because with a lifetime of mental health issues it can only help (for those who are comfortable enough in their bodies to want to), but competing against women who were born biologically women is ridiculous. They'd may as well remove the woman's category altogether and just have no sex division, because women will never win anyway.

I had never thought about iron that way, but in some ways it could be argued that if you're born into the wrong body it is a disability, albeit a personal one.

And I don't think that because there are so few trans people who play sports competitively that it's a non-issue. Firstly, it takes just one person per sport to be able to outdo all the biologically, from birth women. Secondly, look at what happens with nationalities when people can utilise them to their advantage. I know someone who is joint British and another nationality. It's a country that doesn't have (m)any nationals playing their sport (being vague here because it's massively identifying). They were trained essentially as a Brit, with all the advantages that bestows, but competed as the other nationality, because they could compete at an international level that way. They were good, but had they competed as a Brit would not have gone nearly as far (unlikely to have been put forward for international competitions). This sporting "success" (on CV that they competed at international level) then got them a uni place that academically they DEFINITELY would not have gotten otherwise. Intelligent, but but not outstanding. Definitely good to have on a competitive sports team though.

Where there's a system, it's natural to expect people to play it to their advantage. This person didn't break any rules at all. The fact that they were seen as an international competitor has made significant positive differences to their life though. It is not unreasonable to think people who can gain competitive advantage wouldn't take it.

Is it a non issue? How many people who are transgender want to compete competitively? Since most have acknowledged mental health issues so disabling they need surgery and a lifetime of medication maybe add a category to the Paralympics?

FTTs could compete with women but not if they are on T. The problem with the reported case is the exception to the rules on using testosterone where it is for a "valid medical purpose". This needs to be subject to the athlete retaining a female hormone profile.

Multiple catagories depending on hormone profile. Start with three, broadly current male, female and then an 'inter' category.

A bit like the Paralympics has multiple catagories.

I think whatever decisions we make need to be based on: Will women watch the women's category and feel that they as a sex are being represented and included? Will parents look at their daughters see them as possible future athletes?

If parents are looking at their daughter Sarah, who happens to be a terrific runner, and not really bothering to cultivate her talents because "Well, we all know that, y'know, 'regular girls'ones that have vaginas and ovaries and have had them from birtharen't going to win anything in competitive sport. You can't quite say that out loud, of course, but c'mon we all KNOW this"--then that is a problem.

Transwomen should not be allowed to complete in women's sport.
It will never be fair. I can't imagine there ever being enough competitors to create a new classification so I'm afraid it's just tough, you can't compete against women. If sport is that important to you, you will have to compete against men. It's exactly the same if you have a disability but don't meet the classification for the sport, you cannot take part.

"true sportsmen wouldn't want any kind of unfair advantage."
Then damned few of them are true. Doping scandals aplenty, in every sport.

No from me. it should be based on biological sex and the same doping rules apply to all.

Another vote for no.

Greater strength, longer stride, longer reach, greater musculature and greater lung capacity all combine to create an unfair adavantage over 'natural' female athletes.

FTM athletes will have the unique disadvantages of a female body against a male athlete.

Unless there is a trans category, once they start to transition, they have to accept their sporting days are over.

If they had been born female they wouldn't need the hormones or surgery. I dont understand why it isnt classed as an advantage, like doping. they can compete with the men or have a third group. A course of hormones is not the same as being born female.
They cant fairly compete against women, and true sportsmen wouldn't want any kind of unfair advantage.

No, they should not be allowed to compete.