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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How is this ok? For anyone involved.

68 replies

dollywobbles · 25/02/2017 00:33

This evening I went out for a few drinks with some female friends.
So far so normal. However, at the end of the evening, as we were all leaving the pub, the landlord called out to 6 of us 'make sure you get this one home safely'. He had his arm around the 7th member of the group. I said ' really? You're asking all of us to make sure one of us gets home safely?' He said 'she tries to walk home the long way and it's not safe'.
She is a 37 year old adult. Landlord has no idea where anyone else lives.
I was properly enraged by this, as were a few of the others (all of the others after we all discussed it), the suggestion we should protect one of our number, but not the others, from (I assume) being attacked by men.
It's ridiculous, infuriating and so bizarre: if she's at threat, how are the rest of us safe?
Even when I said how weird what he was suggesting was, the landlord showed zero recognition.
It's just a normal event isn't it?
Made me so angry.

OP posts:
GreyStars · 25/02/2017 12:09

If this was a random man, I would agree with the premis of what sparrowhalk has written.

Random man approaches group of women, puts arm round one of them, tells other six on the dangers of getting home and that this one who he knows vaguely likes to walk the long way home and needs protecting. Very annoying, none of his business. It would be irrelevant advise as I don't think anyone male or female should be walking home alone at night after drinking, nobody would interested group of friends. It is highly likely given the fact it was late at night they were leaving at closing time that the OP and her friends had been drinking.

However, this wasn't a random man, this is a pub landlord - male or female a pub landlord will often feel like they have a responsibility to ensure their customers male or female get home safely, especially those leaving at the end.

They will be used to identifying people who are in a vulnerable state, it may be more obvious to them than other people as there used to be surrounded by people under the influence of alcohol.

They will know who else has been in that pub that night, and they might have their doubts about someone and therefore have become a bit on the alert about who is walking home alone.

Lots of what's if and buts with this thread, but stand by my original view that on the face of it,with the information given that this was a human being looking out for another human being and actually doing their job.

As for the landlord thinking the woman might be attacked by men, No mention of her being attacked just her safety. Her falling over into a bush might have been their main concern, who knows they were just doing their job IMO.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 10:58

My local police service have had campaigns about getting home safely and there are different images used on the posters. Groups of men and groups of women. And they include the message about looking after your mates and Going out together, stay together, get home together.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 25/02/2017 10:46

I have never seen a police campaign advising men to stick together or watch out for each other

I think there have been examples of posters of mixed groups giving that message.

I'm not sure what is bothering the OP beyond perhaps a man said it.

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 10:31

Yes, absolutely, if the woman prefers to walk home alone, that's her choice.

It doesn't seem to be what the OP is bothered by though.

qumquat · 25/02/2017 10:25

Maybe because I've often been on the receiving end of this sort of advice it immediately raises my hackles. I can walk home alone the long way round if I feel like it.

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 10:21

He's not just some man advising women on safety.

He's a pub landlord, so it's part of his role, and he's speaking to the most appropriate people about it, female friends of the woman concerned.

qumquat · 25/02/2017 10:19

Many posters are assuming this woman was drunk, or more drunk than her friends. I can't see any suggestion of this in the OP so I assume it wasn't the case. I'd find it incredibly patronising too. I can't imagine a similar conversation ever taking place with a group of male customers (unless again one is falling over drunk). I agree with Sparrowhawks excellent post.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 10:10

I think I've worked out that you were all going to be going home together so it wasn't a case of leaving her alone but it sounds like he is friends with that one person so was basically saying "she said important to me, take care of her" maybe I have that wrong and she was more drunk than the rest of you and that's what he meant.

Trills · 25/02/2017 10:06

There's no suggestion in the OP that anyone, including that particular friend, was especially drunk or in need of special care.

piginboots · 25/02/2017 10:05

I don't really get the upset here. I have frequently asked others to look after or keep an eye on my male friends when they are drunk and I'm worried that they'll end up in trouble (robbed, lost etc etc). I don't see how this is so different.

WhiskeySourpuss · 25/02/2017 09:59

From the information given in the OP I'd assume that the landlord knows this member of the group in some way (he knows where she lives & the route she usually takes home - perhaps she's a regular?).

If this is the case it may be slightly patronising but in a caring way - a bit like the way my dad's friend lectures me on not checking my tyres when I take the car into his garage... yes it's patronising but it's because he'd rather I wasn't stopped by the police & given a fine I don't get enraged I just promise that I'll check them I future.

Badcat666 · 25/02/2017 09:56

trills it's not patronising. For all we know it might have been that her other "friends" were too busy or drunk too notice how bad she was. (Or maybe they didn't even really care?)

When did being concerned about the welfare of another human being become patronising? Or is it only patronising if a male tells a female that their friend needs help?

If so then I'd rather have a friend like the landlord than the friends she was with.

Walkingtowork · 25/02/2017 09:54

Sparrowhawk has summed up the problem with this brilliantly

angelicjen · 25/02/2017 09:52

I'm glad my friends are more caring than you.

Badcat666 · 25/02/2017 09:51

Also most landlords will point out if someone needs help getting home or point out someone has had too much too drink.

Just because the landlord had a penis makes no bloody difference. They saw someone who was too drunk to get home and asked her "friends" to make sure she gets home ok.

This also happens to men. Been in plenty of pubs and clubs in my youth where the landlord or bar staff have asked male groups or mixed groups to make sure a man gets home ok.

None of them got offended and bad mouthed them.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 09:50

What? Don't you always make sure your friends get home safe? Confused that's what friends do surely.

Trills · 25/02/2017 09:50

Badcat nobody here is saying that friends should not look out for each other.

We are saying that a person outside of the group TELLING us to look out for each other is patronising.

TheSparrowhawk · 25/02/2017 09:49

Badcat you don't seem to understand my post at all. Where did I say that you should leave your drunk friend to walk home?

museumum · 25/02/2017 09:49

It sounds odd but it also sounds like the landlord had a closer relationship with this one than the rest of you. He knew where she lived and what way she walked home usually.
It is patronising to her that he asked you all to watch out for her but it would have been even more so if he'd assumed you being women couldn't do so.

Trills · 25/02/2017 09:47

It feels very possessive, doesn't it?

Putting arm around, telling you to look after her. He may as well have said "look after my girl".

Badcat666 · 25/02/2017 09:44

So a poster finds it galling that other posters think that friends should look out for each other? Now I've heard everything.

So being a feminist means leaving a drunk friend to walk the long way home?

I have looked after friends who have had too much to drink, both female and male, and on occasion someone else has pointed out they needed to get home ok. Did I get offended? No we thanked them and made sure we all got the same taxi or ordered a cab for them. Not rocket science. To get offended that another human being was concerned about a member of your group is rather sad and and says more about the op than the landlord.

When did feminism mean you suddenly get offended and pissy at someone who is more concerned about your friends welfare than you are? Was it because it was a man that pointed this out and it offended the op that a male noticed the state the friend was in? If so get a grip. Be glad at least someone was concerned for them.

Again it's nothing to do with feminism, it's about being a decent human being and looking after a friend. For all we know she may walk along a river or stream or by a busy road, both killers if you trip and fall.

TheSparrowhawk · 25/02/2017 09:38

Also, Datun, do you think there is any women in the world who needs to be advised by a man about how dangerous the world is for women? Do you think his advice was actually necessary?

TheSparrowhawk · 25/02/2017 09:35

Datun, do you reckon he would have given the same advice to a bunch of men?

Datun · 25/02/2017 09:29

TheSparrowhawk

I agree with what you have said. However, I don't think I would be outraged. I might be a bit depressed by what has led the landlord to have this 'knowledge'. But he wasn't talking from a philosophical, ethical or feminist point of view. He was operating within the confines of what does happen, rather than what should happen.

dudsville · 25/02/2017 09:26

I like your post sparrowhawk, well said. Yes, in the moment perhaps this one friend seemed more vulnerable to this guy, but the context you've added here is important.

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