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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How is this ok? For anyone involved.

68 replies

dollywobbles · 25/02/2017 00:33

This evening I went out for a few drinks with some female friends.
So far so normal. However, at the end of the evening, as we were all leaving the pub, the landlord called out to 6 of us 'make sure you get this one home safely'. He had his arm around the 7th member of the group. I said ' really? You're asking all of us to make sure one of us gets home safely?' He said 'she tries to walk home the long way and it's not safe'.
She is a 37 year old adult. Landlord has no idea where anyone else lives.
I was properly enraged by this, as were a few of the others (all of the others after we all discussed it), the suggestion we should protect one of our number, but not the others, from (I assume) being attacked by men.
It's ridiculous, infuriating and so bizarre: if she's at threat, how are the rest of us safe?
Even when I said how weird what he was suggesting was, the landlord showed zero recognition.
It's just a normal event isn't it?
Made me so angry.

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VestalVirgin · 25/02/2017 17:59

"Tries to" implies she does it a lot, though.

Ah. I'm not a native speaker, so didn't notice that.

What I find inappropriate is the arm around the woman in question, and OP doesn't even mention that.

The drunkness, or lack thereof, is also not mentioned, that would also make a difference.

Telling people things they know already because one wants to be extra sure is not male exclusive.

(Wasn't there an article in The Onion on a man who had an accident because his mother had failed to tell him to drive carefully?)

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 16:44

Wimmin?

HOUSE!

BooMooLeonardo · 25/02/2017 16:37

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
(arguing a different argument)

But in my head it became Wicker Man so I was Grin at the thought of it being flamed.

Shallishanti · 25/02/2017 16:28

this really is the sort of complaint that gives feminism a bad name- reminds me of some of the women I knew way back when, the sort who wouldn't tolerate a male dog visiting their house...

Janet80 · 25/02/2017 16:21

What's a straw man?

WhisperedLoudest · 25/02/2017 15:59

I don't understand Confused

I've certainly seen landlords behave similarly to the drunk man in a group.

Crumbs1 · 25/02/2017 15:54

'Wimmin' looking for something to be angry about do all womankind a disservice. What's wrong with kindness and concern? More important things to get upset about.

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 15:50

"If he had sent her way with not a care for her safety he would be flamed, "

That would be a straw man.

Janet80 · 25/02/2017 15:21

Sometimes I think men can't win, they are famnrdnif they do and damned if they don't. If he had sent her way with not a care for her safety he would be flamed, if he says take care of her...how very dare he! She's a grown woman, would he say this to a man? Why didn't he show concern about all of us? How dare he put his arm around her and be concerned!
You can't have it all ways! What is it, about his actions, that left you so annoyed?

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 14:33

Sorry. Childish. But that was one hell of a typo...

"avuncular"

Avuncular is paternalistic - both mean "acting like a protective elder relative."

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 14:32

I really hope she hasn't self-CUMbusted Lass...

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 25/02/2017 14:20

The OP's outrage must either have dimmed or she has spontaneously self-cumbusted as we haven't seen her again.

Blossomdeary · 25/02/2017 14:09

Oh get a life - really this man was showing concern for a customer's safety - what the heck is wrong with that?

You do not know that he has never said the same thing to a group of male friends about one of their number - it is you who is being sexist by making that assumption that eh only shows concern for women. Not that I can see anything wrong with that.

It is possible to put an arm round someone in an avuncular way.

Feminism is set back by these over-sensitivities as it holds us up to ridicule.

TheSparrowhawk · 25/02/2017 14:05

Maybe the landlord could have kept his mouth shut Vestal rather than telling grown women what to do?

RedAndYellowPeppers · 25/02/2017 14:04

Yep so you have decided that one person was more vulnerable and the less vulnerable have gone back home walking in their own. Again the Police advice to stay together....
That's what I mean by not possible to do in practical terms. Someone IS left to,walk in their own, albeit maybe a shorter distance.

I agree with the comments on 'tries to' and the paternalistic comment.
It is only acceptable of the person who is making the comment is very close. I can't see the pub owner being that close to that woman, even she was a regular customer.
Besides, why the idea that the people who were with her, her 6 other friends wouldn't be intelligent enough to spot she was very drunk or ready to do something maybe dangerous that he had to make the comment?
What made him above all the other women to be able to judge better what sort of help that woman needed?
He isn't just putting himself in the role of the protector towards one woman, he is also putting himself above all the other people present as knowing best than all what she needed.

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 13:52

VV

"Tries to" implies she does it a lot, though. Like my mother telling me to walk back along the main road from the station, not the shorter but unlit route. (I am older than the woman in this anecdote and it's dark half the year by 1800 when I'm back from work).

"She says she's going to" would be more spur of the moment worry for a particularly drunk customer.

Might be splitting hairs!

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 13:49

And similarly I've done the taxi "babysitting" to a drunk friend's house before doubling back to my own.

OneWithTheForce · 25/02/2017 13:47

one how are you supposed to all get back home together if you don't live together?

Well when I'm out with friends we go as far as possible with each other and if a friend who lives further away than everyone else is particularly drunk whoever lives nearest to them will ride the taxi to their house first to make sure they get home safe and then double back to their own place. It's just how it's always worked when I go out no matter who I'm with. I've had friends walk me home to my house before doubling back and going to the opposite side of town to their own houses because I was really drunk.

VestalVirgin · 25/02/2017 13:45

"She tries to" is very paternalistic. I'd expect him to be saying it about a daughter, niece etc.

That is why I immediately assumed she was drunk. Because drunk people "try to" do lots of things, without success.

If she was not drunk, and/or he did not know her well, then it is extremely weird behaviour, but if she was, then it was just perhaps a bit superfluous to tell her friends to keep her safe, as they knew that already.

Yes men only dispensing unnecessary advice is annoying. But what exactly should the landlord have done? Should he have called the police?
Called her a taxi she might not have the money for? Called and paid for a taxi that she possibly would refuse to use?

HelenDenver · 25/02/2017 13:29

"He said 'she tries to walk home the long way and it's not safe'."

"She tries to" is very paternalistic. I'd expect him to be saying it about a daughter, niece etc.

RedAndYellowPeppers · 25/02/2017 13:25

one how are you supposed to all get back home together if you don't live together?
I mean in a very practical way, at least one person will have to walk back home alone.....

That sort of advice always annoys the hell out of me as it is impossible to do for everyone.

almondpudding · 25/02/2017 13:20

We don't know he thought she was more vulnerable. He just knew her route home and was concerned by it. He didn't know the situation of the others so just commented on hers to the appropriate people - her female friends.

Errrmmm · 25/02/2017 13:13

the suggestion we should protect one of our number, but not the others, from (I assume) being attacked by men.

You 'assume'! That's abit sexist. He could have been talking about a group of women trouble makers who hang around there, a pack of wild dogs, open man hole, anything really,

Datun · 25/02/2017 13:01

To be honest there is not enough information in the OP for me to reach conclusion.

I'd like to know why he singled out that one girl. Did he know her? Was she drunk?

And I am fully aware of rape myths and I try wherever I can to dispel them. But without more information as to why he thought she was more vulnerable than the rest, I can't really judge it.

And yes, I totally agree that in these situations it would be useful if a klaxon went off above the landlords head saying 'male violence needs addressing!' instead of just not mentioning it and blindly accepting that's the way things are.

It's difficult, because although I don't blame him for what he said, I wish he did not inhabit a mindset/world that lets him say it without thinking.

Trills · 25/02/2017 12:32

It seems like the landlord thought he was one of their friends, in which case it would not be weird, but the OP thought he was "a person whose bar they sometimes go to", and so it was weird.

We only have the OP's description to go on, so I've responded as if she is right.