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Original poster

The Orgasm Gap!

58 replies

SomeDyke · 24/02/2017 15:00

Forget about pay and all that! According to new research:

BBC News Report

"The study, by Indiana University, Chapman University and Claremont Graduate University, showed the proportion of people who usually orgasmed was:

65% of heterosexual women
66% of bisexual women
86% of lesbian women
88% of bisexual men
89% of gay men
95% of heterosexual men"

My initial reaction, I was a bit smug! (Yes, we keep boasting that it's better with a dyke! Grin). But then my second reaction was -- a THIRD of non-lesbian women don't usually orgasm. Despite years of feminism, books and videos and movies and more instructions on where to find the clitoris ,G-spot etc and what to do with them than you can shake a large vibrating dildo at. And yet a third still 'fail' (Note that I'm, not saying orgasming is/should be the goal of sex BTW).

Are non-gay men really that crap at sex? It would seem so!

Reading on, it says: "and a belief in some men that most women orgasm from penetrative sex." Whereas apparently "Few heterosexual women climaxed through penetrative sex alone".

So what is it, do the chaps not notice it, why is this false belief not questioned, or do their partners assure them it is all fine, or just act really well (whilst looking forward to a session with their rabbit once he has fallen asleep?).

I just find it depressing that after so many years of effort, women still do more of the household chores, still earn less, and it seems are less likely than the chaps to even have a decent shag after all that.......................

Because women deserve better!

OP posts:
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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 02/03/2017 10:45

I'd guess that lesbian relationships might be more likely to be equal with a knock on effect on sexual mutuality. Flavia's post made me think and, when I look back, the few unsatisfactory sexual relationships I had were, indeed,,with the sort of men who would expect me to pick up their socks.

Batteriesallgone · 02/03/2017 10:06

You'd think the % of women incapable of achieving orgasm would be the same across all woman though, regardless of sexuality.

kittykarate · 02/03/2017 09:50

It would be interesting to know if the other 35% were capable of orgasm through masturbation, and just can't get it to happen when with their partner (so that is the substitute mothers, the wham bam thank you ma'am sufferers etc.) versus those that cannot make it happen for whatever reason (never tried solo, cannot get their mind in the correct place etc).

FlaviaAlbia · 02/03/2017 09:17

I reckon it's linked to the fact that a staggering amount of straight women seem to be in relationships with men who treat them as a mother substitute and general skivvy. If a man is selfish enough to think picking up his socks is a woman's job I can't imagine he'd be any less selfish in bed...

DeviTheGaelet · 01/03/2017 20:22

As we have hidden ovulation we need some other drive to get us to shag, and orgasm is it imo. I don't buy it that women don't come because female orgasm isn't essential. I'm with dyke in thinking that it's something to do with power relationships in het relationships.

Original poster
SomeDyke · 01/03/2017 19:13

"Male orgasm is essential for the survival of the species. Female orgasm is not. "
Well, although the actual evolutionary history of female orgasm was still 'mysterious' the last time I looked, we do have amongst humans and other primates, quite a bit of evidence of the secondary purpose of sex (i.e. not impregnation). The fact that, unlike many other species, human females are able to enjoy sex when they're not likely to conceive. We see female chimps masturbating cos it is fun! Amongst bonobos (pygmy chimps), we see sex between males and males, females and females, as well as males and females. A whole group bonding, tension reduction or just generally fun thing going on there. A TV prog I was watching last night, we had a post-menopausal (I think orangs have menopause!) female eagerly engaging in sex with a younger male. Cos it was fun!

So, amongst apes at least, female orgasm seems as natural and useful as male, AFAIK, Although I will admit I have not yet seen a considered analysis of orgasm frequency amongst gorillas........(actually, I did look up a study across various primates, and admit that experimenters who manually stimulate female chimpanzees, well, the ethics panel must have had fun with that one! It was back in 1977 though......). Macaques, chimps, baboons, and female apes who have been measured to have the same muscular contractions etc as occur in human females. So it's an old part of our evolutionary history. Like tool use, the closer we look, the further back these things go (and those of you pondering about 'tool use' for sexual purposes can just stop it right now!).

OP posts:
CassyD · 01/03/2017 13:02

Because women deserve better!
it's true

RebelRogue · 01/03/2017 07:24

Bam I don't. I don't like it. Obviously it's not a never ever as i had to try it to know I don't like it.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/03/2017 00:42

This link from Jezebel claims 92% of women masturbate but the figures I've seen in the past were much lower than that, Bambam.

Bambambini · 28/02/2017 23:55

I wonder how many women really have never masterbated (or won't admit it) - i find that strange, i thought everyone did. Maybe the've always had partners who wanted a lot of sex. I was on my own for long periods so it was just down to me.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/02/2017 23:10

Plus I think the range of answers to this thread says a lot as well

It really is none of your business but like at least one other poster I have no difficulty achieving orgasm by piv. As others have said it requires getting to know what suits you. It is more satisfying than diy orgasms and far more satisfying than oral sex.

Still not sure why you are so interested in heterosexual sex given you don't practice it and in the past have been very dismissive about heterosexual women's preferences.

Batteriesallgone · 28/02/2017 20:30

TTC can put a real downer on the female orgasm too I've heard. I know TTC for a long time has caused issues in the bedroom for quite a few friends of mine.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 28/02/2017 20:19

I think that patriarchy does teach women that they have sex done to them, rather than being active assertive partners. The stereotypes of passivity and being ladylike don't encourage women to explore their sexual potential. If you have never brought yourself to orgasm you're not going to be able to show a partner what works for you.

My feminist understanding was that I could and should explore, that my body was full of sexual energy that I could enjoy. When I say I take responsibility for my own orgasm, I would like you to consider whether men do this (they do) and why it might be a good idea to give that responsibility to my partner (I don't).

As a result of my feminist understanding I became an expert in my own arousal. I had some duff partners in my youth but, all in.all, I have had multiple orgasms during sex far more times than even single orgasms, though ime that's kinda automatic for me in that once I reach that state it's very easy to just keep going. I think anatomy plays a part, but that's only a personal hypothesis.

Male orgasm is essential for the survival of the species. Female orgasm is not. Strong pair bonds are very important to the well-being of children, though, and I imagine female orgasm, or at least sexual contentment, plays a big part in that. This idea might be bollocks, but I find the idea interesting.

Itwasthenandstillis · 28/02/2017 20:07

I love piv but I don't get enough clit. stimuLation to Orgasm. Oral for that. I try to avoid vibrator because I find it desensitises me. I think I still have childhood hangups about parents attitude towards sex and their ducked up relationship - sex is something rude, shouldn't talk about it and you should feel guilty about it. ....

Datun · 28/02/2017 19:35

I don't think you have a particular agenda, I do think that lesbians probably understand the female body very well. Plus there is no PIV going on, so there is more practice!

On the other hand, a lot of women like PIV sex without the necessity of an orgasm.

Personally I like both, for completely different reasons, but haven't managed both at the same time...

Men are always banging on about not being able to find the clitoris. Probably because the thing that makes them orgasm is very difficult to avoid. Plus, I'll say it again, clitoral stimulation is different for every woman and I think a bit of a fine art. I don't think there are many men who can't masturbate to orgasm, but there are quite a few women.

Original poster
SomeDyke · 28/02/2017 19:02

To those who are suspicious about my motives.....

Don't blame me, I just quoted the figures!

I'm just interested in why heterosexual sex has the largest difference between the partners (95% for males, 65% for females, 30% is a BIG difference!).

You could argue from the fact that since all of the male categories 'score' higher than all the female, that perhaps it is just 'easier' for chaps to orgasm. But then within a category, we have hetero/homo/bi chaps only a 7% spread, whereas amongst females we have a 21% spread between heterosexual women and lesbians.

Either way you look at it, heterosexual women seem to be significantly different. And I think the between partners spread surely says quite a bit! Okay, we have the one major, relevant biological difference that straight men have compared to lesbian women, and from these figures, the ole PIV seems to increase the chance of orgasm for the man, and significantly decrease it for the woman..............

Plus I think the range of answers to this thread says a lot as well............

OP posts:
Batteriesallgone · 28/02/2017 17:23

Surely those factors can't be that influencing though, since a fair majority of straight woman do manage to orgasm.

I wonder what proportion of straight women are in abusive relationships. Orgasms tend to be pretty thin on the ground there.

cadnowyllt · 28/02/2017 16:45

RebelRogue - where are you from, Gallifrey ? You want to get that TARDIS of yours seen to.

RebelRogue · 28/02/2017 16:30

Notyoda that might be true,but you are forgetting the (social,cultural and religious) influences that teach girls/women that:
-sex is a duty
-enjoying sex is dirty
-masturbation is bad
-sex is only for procreation purposes so oral,anal etc is not ok
-doing/having done to you certain sexual acts mean you are not wife material
-the man's pleasure is the priority
-no sex before marriage
-be polite,don't complain,don't make a fuss

And so on.

VestalVirgin · 28/02/2017 16:24

Women have been encouraged to learn about their bodies by the women's movement since the late 1960s

And this contradicts my statement that patriarchy does the opposite ... how, exactly?

The women's movement has also encouraged women to leave abusive men. That problem is still not solved.
I still don't believe that this is somehow women's fault.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/02/2017 16:24

Yeah, but not really, because women are discouraged from learning about their own bodies by patriarchy, so ... if you don't even know you could have an orgasm, it is kinda hard to determine whether a partner is unsatisfying

As Cadnow said this is a staple feature of just about every women's magazine.

NotYoda · 28/02/2017 16:08

Vestal

Women have been encouraged to learn about their bodies by the women's movement since the late 1960s

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/02/2017 13:59

Nope, nothing do with with chaps or the patriarchy at all, nothing to see laydees....

What was your motive for this thread?

You have posted several times on other threads about how heterosexual women have their heads in the sand or are arrogant about not even considering why they are heterosexual or why they have not considered homosexuality.

Frankly I struggled to see any difference between what you said in a recent thread about sub/dom sex and what Reilly Dennis (?) said when they were demanding we should at least consider trans partners.

Completely agree with Batteries post.

cadnowyllt · 28/02/2017 13:54

Yeah, but not really, because women are discouraged from learning about their own bodies by patriarchy, so ... if you don't even know you could have an orgasm

Smile - I'm going to have to check back on some of those copies of Cosmo we have in the house - I'm sure very occasionally (Wink) they manage to sneak in the odd article about orgasms.

Nickanickname · 28/02/2017 13:27

The headlines on thisannoyed me because they talkedabout straight women having fewer orgasms. But I don't think the actual question was about the number of orgasms -it asked whether you normally orgasm during sex. But if women have multiple orgasms on some occasions and no orgasms on others, then they might average out better than men.

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