Treated like a child - is this a feminist issue?

The OP said they had a reason and the lack of attendance was unusual. I also think that if they are not going to refer to a 44 year old as a girl then they should not refer to a 24 year old as a girl. We dont know if they would or would not in this case, but somehow I doubt it. Yes, that phrase made me raise my eyebrows too, but then I'd never ask to see a student without telling them why. Ditto, if my manager asks to see me I expect to be told why.

"I sent a email profusely apologising to the person leading the session, and she replied saying for me to come and see her. I thought that she was being kind and was going to explain to me how I could catch up....."

This is the line that keeps grating with me. 'I'm not your Mum!' might be my gut response. I fully understand why some women react like this, I fully understand why this style of approach quite often works with younger women and older men, I quite understand that some cultures have different expectations...........

But it's not the attitude we/I are trying to encourage in out students. You're an adult who has to take responsibility for their own learning and their own failures. Okay I don't think it is a brilliant phrase to use to a student, the 'naughty girl' one, but if someone was acting like one...........

If the phrase is sexist, it's because the situation we are talking about (lecturer/student decaying into teacher/child, or even worse parent/child dynamics, rather than adult and another adult who is in a position of authority (and who will be marking your exam)) is coloured by the sex of the participants because our society is! In fact, I think the phrase worked because the recipient has certainly had to think about things a bit! Even if the conclusion they have come to (it's sexist for her to call me that) possibly isn't the one the lecturer wanted!

The reason for the absence does matter BTW -- if due to an unavoidable accident/illness/medical emergency/family energency etc etc, then most lecturers will see is as their responsibility to help the student as best they can. If it's just cos someone couldn't be arsed getting up..................then perhaps not (I can't afford to buy all such students alarm clocks, although since so few seem to even have a watch nowadays, maybe cheap LOUD alarm clocks might be a good thing for freshers week!)

Because some of us actually do care and do try and do the best for our students, even if sometimes doing the best means trying to give them a bollocking and trying to get them to grow up a bit before they get savaged in the outside world..................

But I'd never, ever refer to a student as a naughty girl. That's infantalising them, not making them grow up. I also don't always just assume that they are snowflakes. Mine have amazingly complex lives and often their reasons for missing class reflect this and actually demonstrate quite adult responsibilities including taking on parental roles for younger siblings, caring for mentally ill parents and working to help pay rent on the family home when parents can't. I've had them turn up under the most amazing circumstances too - and I admire their resilience. I think my institution should care more about attendance than it does - but that's another story.

Actually I think she was just humiliated at being called girl - she's made that pretty clear.

OK, that's alright then. Clearly you think not turning up to a teaching session is fine

Not really, no. I've taught in places where it is and isn't fine. But I'm not wasting my time preparing classes if even one student turns up ... Remember that from amateur acting days - an audience of 1 deserves the same as an audience of 100. I've had students not turn up for a plethora of reasons including illness, domestic violence, crime, childminding fail, bereavement, inability to pay for transport, having to care for others ... endless reasons.

SomeDyke - yes, I hear you. See my earlier post - we're on the same page about this. I suspect that that OP feels she should have been helped, rather than told off. So she is extra outraged now, hence her post, which is really manufacturing a sense of sexist treatment, IMO.

One could read her narration of the whole incident as edging (just) towards snowflakery: OP expected to be praised for her effusive apologies, and told it would all be OK< and it didn't matter that she missed a session for no appropriate reason, but instead was actually treated like an adult: told the consequences of her actions. Hence the outraged tone. Perhaps.

What was the context, Dre?
Sorry for the delay in replying - he was caught misusing University computers and hence got banned from the IT systems. When he appealed to a senior academic the academic replied something along the lines of 'stop wasting my time you immature boy.' Fair enough in my opinion! He was a first year undergraduate.

Which had others in it ... ??

OK, that's alright then. Clearly you think not turning up to a teaching session is fine.
I think it explains why she was so mad.

O goddess! A lot of that is so true! As regards plagiarism, now we have to make sure we do explain, to both undergrads and postgrads, what exactly is wrong, and what will happen if they do it. Still get cases of plagiarism though, and still get the 'I didn't know it was wrong' response. Cos what else are you going to say? Yep, I knew it was wrong but did it anyway..........

As regards attendance, since (I assume) many unis do monitor for visa purposes, and good unis will assign students a personal tutor, at some point if someone persistently misses classes/lectures/labs, someone is supposed to notice and do something. If you're lucky, someone notices as soon as you start missing stuff and maybe does something useful like pointing out that people who miss stuff might not have such a good chance of actually passing the course. Because some of us actually do care and do try and do the best for our students, even if sometimes doing the best means trying to give them a bollocking and trying to get them to grow up a bit before they get savaged in the outside world..................

I was referring to the original teaching session, not the catch-up

Which had others in it ... ??

The OP was invited to the discussion she didn't ask for a catch-up.

I was referring to the original teaching session, not the catch-up.

SomeDyke - maybe you should have a look at this ...

Because when students don't attend at my uni, we are expected to check why they didn't, deal appropriately if there is a reason for the absence, and also deal with it if there isn't a good reason

Ah Ok ... in my neck of the woods things are a mite different. Don't know which I prefer really.

"If the lecturer didn't want her time wasted she could have simply ignored her communication.........." The time and effort wasted for me would have been preparing for the original session, then having to faff about with whoever saw fit not to turn up for whatever reason! Because when students don't attend at my uni, we are expected to check why they didn't, deal appropriately if there is a reason for the absence, and also deal with it if there isn't a good reason. Which all takes time and effort. So I can quite understand trying to get a bit grumpy with someone who just misses stuff with no reason (and who from the original post seemed to expect the lecturer to be 'nice' and offer advice on how she could catch up). I might even see why someone would berate someone for acting like a naughty child, in that many students don't always make the transition well from being children at school to being adults at uni. I can understand why someone might say ' stop acting like/expecting to be treated like a naughty girl at school, you're an adult so start acting like one'.

So I think I can see why, if really pushed, I might use such phrasing to a woman, or to a man, if I was really miffed and they kept doing the 'naughty schoolchild' thing. Yes, I would appreciate the different dynamic between a female lecturer and a female student, and a male student. And also appreciate the considerably different dynamic between, say, an older male lecturer and a younger female student, where calling someone 'a naughty girl' would be very creepy, sexist, and frankly very worrying.................

But a female lecturer berating a fellow female for acting like a naughty girl. I'd have to be really pushed to say that. But I could appreciate, I think, why some women might. Even if part of the motivation is trying to get women to 'man-up', and acknowledge they will have to try really hard and act like responsible professional adults, even if some men will still see them as girls and non-adults however hard they try...........

"I was too shocked and upset to stick up for myself.........." Perhaps, to be honest, that is the very reaction she was trying to shock you out of! I'd expect an adult to be able to stand up for themselves somewhat better. Also, a profuse apology isn't really the point, since if a group session that can still run, no skin off my nose really if someone doesn't turn up. Might piss off the others in the group, might mess up their group work, but the lecturer? Nope, barely notice. The person who really is going to be effected (affected? I never can recall!) is the one who misses. Hence a stop being bloody daft (and childish, I can feel it coming on!) and get the basics right and attend, 'cos no matter how profuse your apologies, It's not my responsibility if you mess up and fail, it's yours, so grow-up and get on with it...........................

Or maybe I just have particularly worrysome students at the moment, who keep thinking it is my responsibility to make sure they pass, or my job to tell them off if they haven't done the work. 'I'm not your Mum' keeps running through my head sometimes, but I haven't said it yet! :-)

You wasted her time, which is precious to academics (and others!) and she was rightly pissed off and gave you a roasting for it

The OP was invited to the discussion she didn't ask for a catch-up. If the lecturer didn't want her time wasted she could have simply ignored her communication or sent around an already scripted template reply directing her to applicable policy.

You wasted her time, which is precious to academics (and others!) and she was rightly pissed off and gave you a roasting for it.
"Naughty girl" is very weird, but you have no reason to think it wouldn't happen to a man the same age ("NEVER"), is totally wrong. I have witnessed plenty of men being humiliated like naughty schoolboys in academic and commercial workplaces by both male and female bosses.

As a feminist academic, while I wouldn't have called you a "naughty girl," I would have ticked you off. No way would a one to one tutorial in those circumstances have been about "helping you catch up."

Firstly, I'd have tried to find out why you missed a session, if that were unusual for you, in case there was something you weren't coping with & needed support. If you'd missed it for anything other than an urgent medical reason, or urgent personal circumstances (but only very pressing eg death of a parent) then you would be told in no uncertain terms that your behaviour was unacceptable, and that you needed to understand the consequences of your actions.

I would be likely (and indeed do) deal with a young man in the same circumstances rather more stringently, as IME, if there's no pressing mitigating circumstance, young men can tend to feel they're more entitled to take the mick.

So - apart from "naughty girl" - I don't think you can assume you were treated in a sexist way. You missed a session which you should not have missed. You need to deal maturely with the consequences ie take the ticking off on the chin.

I suspect you feel that you were treated like a child because, deep down, you know you were in some way behaving like a child: irresponsibly.

Like not line, and dicks not disks

You don't know that she doesn't speak to male students in the same way. She may well do. And for what it's worth, last week I saw two students, one male, one female, being told off line naughty children in front of a full lecture hall. They deserved it, they were being childish. Some lecturers are disks, it doesn't make them sexist.

The use of "naughty girl" was highly inappropriate,and if you can you should complain about that.
But you have no idea how she would have acted with a male or wether her reaction was sexist or she's just a bully/fed up /condescending twat

I thought that she was being kind and was going to explain to me how I could catch up (e.g. recommending some reading or something)

This was a rather naive assumption.

Wow ... Some condescending assumptions there ...!!!

The language (calling you girl) was inappropriate and the way you described your initial email clearly shows you were not acting like a child, but were simply owning up to a mistake. I assume you'll note your displeasure on any feedback?

You have no idea whether she would have done the same to a man.

You sound quite petulant - you were expecting she was going to mother hen you over the missed class and she didn't. Perhaps she treated you as a child because that is how you presented yourself.

What was the context, Dre?

tbf I know a male (adult) student who was called an 'immature boy' by an academic when he was an undergraduate.