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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just when you thought Everyday Transactivism could no longer surprise * title edited by MNHQ*

743 replies

mirrorisnotmyfriend · 12/02/2017 11:20

They come up with this.

First post - Why Transwomen Aren't Biologically Male.
www.facebook.com/everydayfeminism/

The comments are encouraging though, that is, the ones that haven't been deleted. Lots of people questioning and calling this out.

OP posts:
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venusinscorpio · 13/02/2017 14:16

WTF mirror? Any side effects you get from taking synthetic hormones are not "menstrual pain" or periods. Fucking loons.

whoputthecatout · 13/02/2017 14:08

Why is it ALWAYS about erasing women?! Never about erasing men...

Because they would have their arses handed to them on plate that's why. Men wouldn't stand for it.

So much easier to erase women as TAs think we are too dumb to see what is happening (well, liberal feminists are). We are more of the fuck-off variety.

mirrorisnotmyfriend · 13/02/2017 14:06

From Guerilla Feminism, a more openly craycray FB page that has absolutely nothing to do with feminism.

John L Goodnow It's funny so many of y'all terfs are in full force accusing everyone else of misogyny like it's going out of style. Meanwhile in the trans support groups I'm in, there's frequently threads where amab and afab people are supportive of people dealing with menstrual pain.

Jenny Nemo
Jenny Nemo TERFs think that menstrual pain is exclusive to them or something. Lot's of AMAB women get menstrual pain from being on oestrogen-- aside from the bleeding we actually HAVE PERIODS. What now, TERFS?

John L Goodnow The afab people they want to push the idea of "woman" onto who suffer because they live with a family who thinks gender = genitals and it's destroying them mentally and driving them to thoughts of suicide. But you know, they're "just dealing with internalized misogyny".

OP posts:
MrWriter · 13/02/2017 13:56

Wow, this is totally crazy. I've read a few of these threads on mn, and I'm intrigued by these issues.

These people are cray cray.

Gallavich · 13/02/2017 13:52

The daily mail (maybe unsurprisingly) has taken a stand against transing children and erasing women from pregnancy literature. They have published pieces by Julie bindel the massive terf.

venusinscorpio · 13/02/2017 13:37

YY Ben. They don't try to censor real transphobia and homophobia, let alone misogyny. Just reasoned argument.

venusinscorpio · 13/02/2017 13:35

It is so true to say that this is the biggest threat to women's rights in a long time. Because batshit loons people like these are setting themselves up as the arbiters of feminism and making it all about a load of narcissistic man centred identitieee crap which is totally irrelevant to women, while absolutely refusing to recognise the reality that women are in the main discriminated against because of their biology, not how they "identify".

And actively promoting the erasure of biological women as a specific group while jumping up and down about transwomen being "excluded" whenever a woman mentions her vagina, something which the overwhelming majority of women have (not counting transwomen as women here, but women who for whatever reason by accident or birth don't have a vagina). It is impossible to discuss real female oppression because of pregnancy, menstruation etc on those terms.

Bambambini · 13/02/2017 13:30

I think The Guardian is starting to rethink - sure i've seen some articles recently that weren't 100% completely fawningly trans friendly.

shins · 13/02/2017 13:27

When I was studying feminist theory in the early-mid 90s,(as part of a literature degree) I also had the tremendously female experience of having a baby in the middle of it all. It gave extra resonance to texts like Adrienne Rich's Of Woman Born and Our Bodies Ourselves. It made me aware of what women are up against a bit earlier than my peers. I shudder to think what nonsense a young pregnant student would have foisted on her now, stuff about her cisprivilege and maternity literature telling her she's a pregnant person and be careful not to use the word mother or you might offend someone Hmm

BenLinusatemyhomework · 13/02/2017 13:23

What's also interesting on that thread is that there are a few people actual blokes being openly transphobic, not even trying to engage critically but oddly their posts seem to be left. Whereas the posts that were engaging critically have been deleted (I was deleted and all I did was ask an unaswerable a question, I didn't even offer a view point). Then there are then numerous posts decrying the "transphobia" and terf warfare which means, to the casual observer, it seems that Terf does = bigot as opposed to a gender critical arguement.

You've got to give it to them, they play the manipulation game very well. Almost like seasoned abusers.

Twogoats · 13/02/2017 13:19

When are the media going to hit peak trans? I'm getting so bloody impatient! Angry

DianaMemorialJam · 13/02/2017 13:17

Surely for a woman with PCOS- although an awful thing, it is an affirmation (albeit a horrible one) of being biologically female rather than a proof of lack of being female, as are other downsides such as periods, menopause, etc.

Pencil Shock that is... Just... Wtf.

BenLinusatemyhomework · 13/02/2017 13:16

Diana - if it's a vagina on a male body then it's a male vagina, duh!

A male body is defined by... It's erm... Yeah, no I'm stuck, how are we defining male now?

boldlygoingsomewhere · 13/02/2017 13:13

Well, I also have PCOS and am surprised to learn that it apparently makes me less of a female!

Just fuck off with that appropriation!

They all seem to live in a little bubble and I wonder how on earth they will deal with challenge in the real world. How will they navigate having children and the systemic disadvantages that brings women? They won't have the tools to analyse their own oppression.

GatoradeMeBitch · 13/02/2017 13:08

Why is it ALWAYS about erasing women?! Never about erasing men...

PencilsInSpace · 13/02/2017 12:45

I have no words.

Just when you thought Everyday Transactivism could no longer surprise * title edited by MNHQ*
AlistairSim · 13/02/2017 12:25

Not a critical brain cell between them.

DianaMemorialJam · 13/02/2017 12:05

Oh well then by that twisted logic

I'm nearly six foot tall, so I'm male, right? A male that has born two children? And has periods? And a vagina?

I'm a medical fucking marvel!

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 13/02/2017 12:02

Diane, I think the argument goes something along the lines of "PCOS can take levels of testosterone from about 0.5nmol/ml up to about 2 (normal male range is 10 to 30, for reference), and it can give you a hairy chin - so clearly this makes you part male."

To which my response is, "Um, I'll see you slightly hair chin and raise you pregnancy and breastfeeding."

DianaMemorialJam · 13/02/2017 11:57

Is there a link for a place where they try and explain how pcos makes a woman intersex? I'm struggling to see what on earth that has got to do with anything Confused

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 13/02/2017 11:50

Roly: "Is it because, and I'm guessing this is most likely, there are a subset of transwomen who wish they were an undiagnosed intersex person, because it would give credence to their assertion that they aren't biological males?"

There was an MTT who came on a thread and attempted at great length to convince us that they were almost certainly intersex, just had never been diagnosed as such - despite having fathered 3 children before transition.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 13/02/2017 11:48

Yes I've come across the "PCOS is intersex" bollocks before now - I too suffer from PCOS, and like Errol, I experienced it as something wrong with the female parts of my female-sexed body.

My DS has a minor birth defect, hypospadias, which should be as unimportant as having a tongue tie. For me as a parent a lot of the challenges in dealing with it have been round normalising it - making him feel it is just part of the normal range of difference within the male sex, rather than a big deal. (This matters because the big issue is bullying in school and psycho-sexual issues when he's an adult - I don't want him to have body hangups). I am dreading the day some transwhacktivist numpty tries to undo all the work I've put in to assuring him that male bodies come in all shapes and sizes and it is no big deal, by instead telling him he's actually intersex (he's not) or trans (well, he might decide at some later date that he is, but if he is it won't be because of a minor birth defect).

And the tragic thing is that these people are the Westboro baptists of trans issues, or the sort of way-out-in-the-wilderness Muslim preacher who preaches in defence of domestic violence. At a time when the majority of trans people quietly going about their own business genuinely need their civil rights defended (and I view this by analogy with religious freedom - I may not believe what they believe, but they're at liberty to hold those beliefs without threat to freedom, livelihood, housing rights, employment rights and without the threat of violence), transwhacktivists are driving wedges through the liberal community.

And we live in a time when we desperately need to be free to talk about biology - attacks on Roe vs Wade, or the law in Arkansas proposing that men would have to sign off on women's abortion decisions, or the fact that Trump's pick for Supreme Court supported Holly Lobby's attempt to allow employers to remove contraceptive coverage from company healthcare schemes - these aren't attacks on gender identity, they are attacks on women through our biology and because of our biology.

Everyday Feminism is throwing women under the bus, it's throwing the majority of trans people under the bus, it's throwing intersexed people under the bus - it's a fucking disgrace.

Bambambini · 13/02/2017 11:44

"I've never understood "but you just don't know which chromosomes a person has!" argument."

I think it's mostly young kids who haven't really had to deal with the whole messy reality that biology brings - basically, like pregnancy, birth, bf, infertility, ivf,menopause etc. Some transwomen also as they haven't had to deal with messy biology stuff us females do.

Bambambini · 13/02/2017 11:40

"I'm starting to think that some of these trans women are actually men just having a laugh at the whole thing? I'm thinking of doing it myself actually! Telling everyone I'm now a trans woman and seeing the reaction I get. After all, if bio women and trans women look the same, how will anyone know?!?"

A woman on twitter did this. Put AFAB transwoman on her profile. It was driving folk crazy with them seriously trying to engage with her and explain the whole thing to her. Very funny.

HeyRoly · 13/02/2017 11:39

I've never understood "but you just don't know which chromosomes a person has!" argument.

Is it because, and I'm guessing this is most likely, there are a subset of transwomen who wish they were an undiagnosed intersex person, because it would give credence to their assertion that they aren't biological males?

Thing is, I'm not sure how common it is to be an undiagnosed intersex person. Usually there are markers and symptoms that make it fairly obvious at birth, or at least by puberty?

I know the athletics world seems to have an unusually high number of intersex women who weren't diagnosed until their unnaturally fast performances were investigated (like Caster Semenya) but I'm guessing this is not the norm.

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