Just when you thought Everyday Transactivism could no longer surprise * title edited by MNHQ*

But Everyday Feminism thinks it's appropriate to lump these poor children in with men calling themselves gendervex and wearing eyeliner occasionally. No doubt they're all equally oppressed in the eyes of EF.

So these kids, who would probably have developed into gay or lesbian adults, are basically going to become adults with children's brains and children's genitals and there will be nothing they can do about it.

Once they've been this messed-up, I'd expect their tendency to opt for surgery in the hope of salvaging some sort of solution will be greater than if they had been given time to reflect on what might be best for them.

The inevitability of much of this is breathtaking. And seemingly unstoppable in the present climate.

God. Their brains aren't going to go through all the developments that come with puberty either.
So these kids, who would probably have developed into gay or lesbian adults, are basically going to become adults with children's brains and children's genitals and there will be nothing they can do about it. But that's ok because it's affirming their choices.

Here's a link to an article on the 50 year history of medical transition.

Dr Paul McHugh, an eminent American psychiatrist who started the first gender clinic gradually changed his mind about the validity of transition, remarking that transgender patients often had other serious MH issues and, more importantly, surgery did not improve their MH. Here's a summary of his views.

Goodness, what's the point?

Oh I didn't know that Prawn. Again, it's the children who will pay the price for this madness.

The research done in America on the long-term effects of having a neovagina found the results so bad that it's no longer available under the American system. The suicide rate 10 years post op were 40 times higher than average for that age. I'll go look for some links for that.

There's another issue that never gets air time. A boy given puberty blockers will avoid all the changes that go with male puberty. One of these is penile growth. He will still have a child's penis and therefore never have the tissue required to create a neovagina. And I very much doubt that this information is being given either to the children or their parents who are going through this process.

It's beyond grim.

nauticant

I think it's confirmed for me that there is a highly sexual element to all this. I've seen transwomen online talk about their neo vaginas, and, from what I have seen and read, they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

If the desire to look like a woman takes you down this path, I can't see how anyone would not agree there is a mental health issue involved.

Unhinged and driven by a very unhealthy sexual obsession of some kind.

And yes, I too been reading about Lupron. It has always been dogged by complaints, but now it is being more widely used, I predict class action lawsuits on a massive scale.

Can people with neo-vaginas still orgasm? If not I don't see the point.

Well, you've done me a favour in confirming my view that I don't need to look at that stuff.

But oh! the people who are going to go through that and then realise it's not what they wanted. I wonder how long it will take before it becomes acknowledged as a scandal?

By the way, there's a Lupron article referred to on this thread (I think) that I would recommend to anyone interested in this topic. It's probably biased against the drug but it provides much food for thought.

nauticant

I stopped after about 10 seconds because, honestly, it felt as though I had entered a weird place.

There's a disturbing incongruity to seeing something resembling a (strangely far too small) female organ on some bloke with massive thighs and hairy biker legs.

And the scarring... And the diagrams too. I can't remember seeing many diagrams of female internal organs, apart from, iirc, isn't there always one on a packet of Tampax? So seeing a diagram, that was clearly very unlike any other diagram was incredibly jarring. There are no internal organs. It's very difficult to explain. It just felt so alien. I then made the mistake of reading some medical PDFs and the multitude of on-going problems there are with fake vaginas. One of the most prevalent of which is a 'foul smell'.

And the question constantly circling in my head was why? Why on earth would you? Unless there is something seriously, seriously wrong with you.

Sorry if I sound a bit freaked out. Discussing 'bottom' surgery is easy, looking at it, isn't.

I've said before, but a local academy has a strict uniform (it's a middle school, so from 7 I think) - trousers for boys, and kilts for girls. Makes me giggle every time and wish I was Scottish so I could legitimately complain if my boy went and wanted to wear a the kilt.

I reckon epidemiologists could have a field day with this.

I wonder if schools which already had sensible uniform policy, and a generally gender critical approach (working to break down stereotypes re subject choices, careers advice etc) are seeing fewer kids declaring themselves trans than in more 'conservative' schools? afaik DD's school (girls school, had trouser option for ages, loads doing stem etc etc) isn't seeing this issue.

Every now and then Datun I think "I wonder what the surgery means in reality, should I have a look?" and decide that no, it's something I definitely want to avoid. I don't need convincing that it's some kind of self-harm and I don't want the images flashing into my head whenever this kind of surgery is referred to.

I agree though that the lung-pictures-on-the-cigarette-packet approach could be useful for some blind adherents to the faith.

Did the boys have to wear specifically girl's cut trousers?

If not, how did the school get away with it?

Oh forgot, schools seem to be in their own micro-climate regarding sexism and uniforms, but I won't derail.

errol

My dads stepchildren went to a school where the girls could wear trousers but they had to be actual boys trousers

He thought it was funny as obviously the school 'won' as the vast majority of girls did not want to wear uncomfortable and unflattering clothes cut to fit completely the wrong body shape

I work in a dress shoo and there is a rumour that we will have to wear a certain range of dresses...so i will be in exactly the sane position as those girls

obviously i wont be doing that but if the rumour is correct it should make work very interesting for a while

It was only yesterday that I girded my loins enough to just see what all the fuss was about and googled pics of neo-vaginas.

In the interests of transparency, full disclosure and education around the issue, when children are given talks on trans, they should also see a slideshow of photos as the logical result of transitioning.

The entire issue would disappear overnight. Because after those 10 seconds (which I wish I could unsee), I have no doubt there is a mental health issue here.

Tbh I thought most schools already would have a trouser option for girls. Because of not forcing them to wear gendered clothes in the 21st century. Its an instance of where the outcome is the same whether done for gender critical, or gender reifying reasons, I suppose. I have some hope that grownups are waking up to the consequences of kids who are merely gender nonconformist being encouraged to 'trans' and will try to foster acceptance of just being yourself.

Both lance

If you let mtt wear a skirt then you need to let ftt wear trousers chocchoc is spot on

I don't think that's necessarily so, as it'll be the girls (ftm) who want trousers, won't it? Or do they mean that a boy now identifying as a girl can continue to wear trousers?

But I agree, why not just let girls wear trousers for comfort and practicality.

allowed girls to wear trousers "because of the whole trans thing". For christ's sake, why not just let girls wear trousers because they're comfortable and practical?

How can it not shine out following that kind of idea that the only reason it's being done is because males want it. Girls asked for ages - ignored. Boys who want to be girl and wear skirts, and girls who want to be boys and wear trousers ask for it, and it's granted. How is it not obvious that what's changed is that it's not just girls asking now, but real people, aka boys.

Here's another depressing development. My son's girlfriend told me that a lot of schools now allowed girls to wear trousers "because of the whole trans thing". For christ's sake, why not just let girls wear trousers because they're comfortable and practical?