BMA Advice about Pregnant People

middle

Reaching 'peak-trans' happens when a previously 'live and let live' attitude suddenly takes a nosedive when a particularly ludicrous or damaging piece of trans rhetoric hits you between the eyes and your patience 'peaks', then starts to plummet.

Thanks for the link.

What on earth is trans-peaking? Another nonsensical make up term? In the real world maybe interested people could support this petition to challenge censorship of books written by women? www.change.org/p/protect-feminist-books-at-vancouver-women-s-library?recruiter=668934470&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

nocool

Trans-peaking your mother is brilliant. Tell her to pass it on.

It would seem that the BMA advice has trans-peaked my mother. I've now explained to her about being TERFs...

SomeDyke except that will never happen though will it, this whole thing is about appropriating women's spaces, it's why we now have in many places a men's toilets and a whoever-feels-like-it-formerly-women's toilet.

For me birth is a privilege and a biological truth , women need to be respected, their bodies need to respected and not be censored or forced to misidentify the process.

Yes, privilege in my book too.

And I thought that even when it looked like I was not going to have any.

And yy to lifelong responsibility - too many people do not think beyond the cute baby stage IME.

It comes back to the question whether having a child is a right or a privilege?

Always been a privilege in my book (and mine are late teens/early 20s so there were days when I didn't necessarily consider it thus!).

Nonetheless it comes with tremendous responsibility. Which lasts a lifetime.

being a narcissistic dingbat isn't a reason not to have children sadly

But it should be

It is interesting to think about what it would be like for the child/growing teenager.
I do think that all children consider whatever they grow up with as 'normal' in their younger years and then have to adjust that viewpoint when they become more aware of society's norms, but this scenario? Mind. Blown.

It comes back to the question whether having a child is a right or a privilege?

YY, Gallavich. Earlier this week I was reading an article by a TW who was described as a mother. I can't imagine how distressing it must be to have your ex (or current) partner describing himself as your children's mother. The DC may be too young to register, but some are not. I know if my DF had transitioned and tried to describe himself as my DM I would have been beyond outraged.

When dear little Stefonknee was hitting the headlines I felt desperately sorry for his 7 children. He even claimed to have attempted suicide on one daughter's wedding day because he had been asked not to turn up in a party frock.

I'm wondering how this child will react to the notion that female genitalia is despised to such an extent that her, or his, own mother had her breasts removed and took drugs to grow a beard.

I'm wondering how this child will react to the notion that female genitalia is despised to such an extent that her, or his, own mother had her breasts removed and took drugs to grow a beard.

It's not my place to say that Freddie shouldn't reproduce; being a narcissistic dingbat isn't a reason not to have children sadly. However, I take massive exception to the notion that he's the father. He gestates and births a child = he is the mother. Telling children their mother is theor father is gaslighting and emotionally abusive as far as I'm concerned.

Lets look at it the other way around: on what planet would a chest feeding gay father not be the exception?! And inevitably rouse surprise and reactions of people who struggle to understand.
His experience is so far removed from that of most people that IMO he ought to be treated with the utmost respect and compassion, but I struggle to see how a society as a whole can legislate for his situation without endangering fair treatment to a majority of people.
Nuts.

SomeDyke

Very succinctly if very confusingly put! This whole ridiculous charade has just gone so far beyond the bounds of sanity and reason, that rational people can no longer understand especially as the boundaries/terminology seems to change every other day! Hope I haven't written anything that could possibly be interpreted as "phobic" in any way shape or form because these days it's impossible to know who you might offend! Bring back common sense please

"I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male........So maybe that person will be the father then?"

I'm just trying to imagine how this scenario would go down/have gone down on the old-style gay scene............

I could also bang-on about appropriation of gay male space. Will gay mens spaces now have to include not just san-pro bins, but consider the needs of chest-feeding people for those fathers who haven't had mastectomies?

I'm too boggled --- it was bad enough getting dykes in, but gay men having to accommodate the needs of lactating or pregnant or menstruating gay men whilst still acknowledging they are gay men?

I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male.

So maybe that person will be the father then? A little better then than Hayden Cross who got sperm from a stranger on Facebook.

If Freddie is going to do the bulk of the childcare I do wonder if his dysphoria is going to go into overdrive with all the women-centric aspects involved. The whole process of being pregnant, birthing and raising a child relies on the support of people who understand it from personal experience.

It's great when fathers get involved, but I can only see misery when your mother hates being just that.

I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male. But I agree if you're gender dysphoric and coming off testosterone is supposedly dangerous because of that, how much more dysphoric is it going to be being pregnant ( bit hard to pass then you can't bind that bump!). Can't chestfeed cos you've had a double mastectomy in the US. Stretch marks and then the child itself will be reminder that at least one of you who looks like them must have had a womb at the time. Let alone how they're going to explain their biological links to the child itself............... Not being called a pregnant mother would be the least of their problems frankly.

Why the fuck isn't Freddie being given proper MH treatment . Honestly. I'll probably be roasted for this, but I actually do think that it is unethical for some people to reproduce and I put that individual in this category. Certainly giving Freddie any form of assisted reproductive treatment is unethical in my book (including sperm donation) because of the unknown effects on the foetus (just as a starting point).

And yes, the woman's hour clip was bloody depressing.

Freddie freely admitted he had gender dysphoria and found his female genitalia repugnant. He's had a double mastectomy and has been injecting himself with testerone which has deepened his voice, made his body look masculine and given him facial hair.

The effects of testerone are likely to make you sterile, but not always. Freddie is hoping that in his case his cycle will resume if he stops testerone, at which point he will try and get pregnant. Statistically he will be gay, no mention of a father for this child.

The effects of testosterone on a foetus are unknown, Freddie has no breasts to feed with, hates his female genitalia, is utterly obsessed with himself and is in a constant state of distress when reminded that he was born female.

Millions of children are born into desperate situations.

But there can't be that many who prior to arriving in that situation, their mother sorry father, publicises it on the radio, in the media, is feted by their community, given air time and used as a 'poster boy' for everything progressive.

So yeah, it's utterly depressing.

What I don't get about this whole discussion is that people's feelings get hurt all the time about all sorts of things: women who have just miscarried find it hard to hear about another woman's successful pregnancy, infertility is horrendous to bear in the presence of babies and happy families all around us, there is horrendous sex-, disability-, racial- and any number of other abuse going on and we are encourage to worry about a perfectly accurate choice of words to refer to a vanishingly small proportion of the population??

The mind boggles.

I shall remember to see and treat pregnant women and expectant mothers and should I ever, ever come across a pregnant transman I shall ask who they wish to be referred to and stick to that. Official guidance, my arse!
And I agree, it is irrelevant whether it refers to patients or people in the workplace - it's the sentiment and disordered thinking behind it, I find really quite worrying.

it is not workplace guidance for doctors which is clear from the fact it does not refer to patients.”

If it doesn't refer to the patients, who the hell else does it refer to?

If it's for staff and representatives of the BMA, are they telling us that there are a lot of pregnant transmen working there?

Way to backtrack BMA.

I wrote to the BMA about it and this is their reply:

"The story in the Daily Telegraph is deliberately misleading as is the story in the Daily Mail. We did tell the Daily Mail this before they printed the story .

The story claims the BMA has issued guidance to doctors on what language to use to describe pregnant patients, claiming doctors have been advised not to use the term “expectant mothers” as it might offend transgender patients.

This story is wholly inaccurate, the document and “introduction” they refer to related to a guide for BMA staff and representatives aimed at promoting an inclusive workplace at the BMA. It is not “official guidance” and has not been issued to doctors.

This was our public comment:

A BMA spokesperson said:

“This is a guide for BMA staff and representatives aimed at promoting an inclusive workplace at the BMA, it is not workplace guidance for doctors which is clear from the fact it does not refer to patients.”

Best regards
Corporate development"

That's alright then...

I strongly suspect Corporate Development does not give a flying shit what half the population think of this

Did anyone listen to women's hour yesterday? They're was another interview about this subject. A trans man who has said he'd like to be pregnant one day. When asked about the use of language he actually disagreed with the BMA advise and said it was going too far. When asked if he ever got angry about the language used towards him, he said it was very important to take into considerat the intent of the person.
Anyway, he sounded, on the whole eminently sensible!

You can feel whatever you want and I'm allowed to think you and others on this thread are over reacting.

In response to LassWiTheDelicateAir

I followed the link to Womens Hour and wish I could unhear it - very sad day for mothers

That is a huge exaggeration.
Why is it a huge exaggeration - I do genuinely wish I had never heard it

The person being interviewed, whose name I can't remember was a precious, raging narcissist and goodness knows what was going on in his head, but it was quite clear he was talking about himself.

Did I make any comment about the person?

He wasn't demanding the term "pregnant people" be used unilaterally or that "motherhood" should not be used. He even said "assigned female at birth" is a ridiculous expression.

Did I state anywhere he was demanding this?

Why are you attacking me for feeling it is a sad day for mothers? Am I not allowed to feel sad?