Can anyone suggest why girls at 6 change their view of girls' ability to be brilliant?

Do boys and girls do as much fine motor stuff as each other at home? As much sitting and concentrating type activities? Is this something that's known?

I thought there was various evidence that boys are often encouraged to do more macro physical activities than girls, and that often parent interaction is different with different sex children.

The fact is there are some differences between boys and girls' rates of development (with exceptions from the general groups of course). Boys do fine motor skills at home just as much as girls do although the actual activities they choose/ are encouraged to do might typically be different.
harriet I think sex education should be the same for both at a young age. Being taught that some parts of our bodies are special and only for us to touch ourselves for example.
assasin we aren't looking at what they do before they come to school because we don't have any control over that, but we will be getting parents involved, particularly male relatives.

Not sure about the maths thing. I don't think boys are naturally good at maths. In fact aren't girls generally the ones who do better at school - it's only later on when you get to A Levels that more boys choose it as girls think it is for boys.

I agree that it is school - it's like a collective mindset kicks in. I noticed it with ds - the peer pressure is ridiculous. I'm constantly having to remind him that your gender does not define your abilities.

I'm glad that I work - it is a tangible example to my dcs that men and women can achieve. Not just men. My dcs have seen my office and know that I'm a "boss".

And this kind of behaviour contributes towards boys getting labelled as naughty, which in turn makes them behave worse, turns them off school and affects their attainment negatively.
Also, they are expected to be able to write neatly before they are able. Some of them feel like failures so they give up.

Sea changes what do you think of same sex education? In view of the different developement of girls and boys at young ages etc.

It's surely got a lot to do with what they do before they get to school. If they're not exposed to activities that encourage fine motor control, or sitting down etc then that will no doubt affect what they're like aged 4 or 5 in reception. Will your action group look at what your feeder nurseries, pre-schools, childminders, parents are doing before children start reception?

Exactly Seachanges

I'm a primary school teacher and have taught the really young ones. Usually boys find it much more difficult to sit still and listen than girls. Perhaps it's a developmental thing like fine motor skills. Girls usually develop faster in that area too.
Interestingly, there's actually a big concern in education at the moment (and there has been for years), that boys don't do as well at school as girls. This is a national trend. I'm involved in an action group at school to try to improve our boys' attainment.

And the punishment for "dancing' on the carpet is to miss their playtime !!! It's mad!

It's down to the development of some of the boys' brains (not all of course) But they really do find it difficult to sit still and listen at age 4 5 and 6. So many boys have 'sad' faces put next to their names on the whiteboards in their classrooms. There isn't enough playtime for a lot of them.

Can you explain more about why it's to the detriment of some of the boys? I'm wondering how that works.

I tell you what Pigg My heart sank at them 'studying' any historical figure at age 6 . (I speak as an ex primary teacher) The dcs have no concept of historical time at that age, it's damn stupid if you ask me.

Also people often say that education in the EYs at the moment is aimed at early socialisation (sit still, listen etc. for long periods) , to the detriment of some of the boys' development.

One simple thing I think could help is for schools to try much harder to reference females in their learning rather than primarily males.

I have 3 dc at primary school and my heart always sinks that they're studying yet another male scientist or artist etc. Oh let's throw in Florence nightingale for a token woman.

At my kids' school we had to battle for the 4 school house names to be changed to include 2 women instead of all men.

Kids learn young that the world is male and female is an afterthought

More from me! Having grown up in a family of all brothers (only girl) I am of the opinion that for a more equal society the education of boys needs to chance rather than the education of girls. As it stands now, and as it has stood for centuries, men could make massive change with little effort quickly. Women can make modest changes with massive effort slowly.

How about asking the girls the same question at age 9 or 10 ?. I say that because sometimes girls and boys of around the age of 6 are biologically programmed to discover and identify with their sex. It's a stage they grow through IME. dd1 and dd2 Have innate cleverness and had no trouble succeeding at school or uni. With little 'hard work'.

Agree with this. I have three dd two of whom went through a stage and are now firmly out the other side! poor boys actually...😅However, am surprised by their (young, female teachers) who constantly divide the class up by boys and girls. Boys in one line girls in the other type thing. When I asked them why they did it like that (I was curious!) they said it never occurred to them to manage it in any other way! That "filing" permiates everything unbeknown to them.
Put "Girls are Best" by Sandy Toskvig on the curriculum!

And I agree with people who say that parents are terrible for this. One the other day made a throw away remark about how boys find Maths easier and girls are better at literacy. I pointed out that this didn't apply to all girls - certainly not DD who can do her Maths homework in a few minutes but has to be pursued round the house to read one of the school books!

VestalVirgin "There is also research (at least I remember having read something about that some time ago) that parents and teachers like to attribute girls' achievements to hard work, rather than to innate brilliance, so that's probably the reason for that."

That's a bit worrying actually as I have been deliberately making an effort to praise DD for her hard work when she does well rather than call her clever because I read somewhere that it is better to praise a child for something they can control and do something about (how hard they work) rather than something innate over which they have no control (cleverness). I wouldn't like to think that as a result of that she might get the idea she is less clever than a boy!

School as well IMO.

DD is 6 and around 5 she started coming up with gems she hasn't picked up at home:
"Pink is a girls' colour. Blue is only for boys"
"Harry says girls can't X, Y and Z"
"Only boys can play with X"

Loved Harry's face when DD was the first in the class to ride a bike without stabilisers .

And yes, very gendered games in the playground. When DD tried to join in a football game the other players (all boys) would ignore her, with a mixture of bemusement and contempt that really belongs with adults.

Our school staff reinforce traditional roles with passing comments:
"Typical girl"
"He's just being a boy"
Shut up

I always tell DD that colours are just colours, toys are just toys, boys and girls are people and people can do anything and like anything. But the world is telling her otherwise and now she is old enough to see that. It's so sad.

Another thought is that, at 6 and 7, there is a real difference in the way in which Maths and English are taught.

There is an immediacy to Maths, e.g. 'Put up your hand if you know what 2+2 equals.' Ability can be demonstrated in the classroom in front of everyone. Writing simple equations '2+2=4' is straightforward and children ca mark each other's work. The children will know who is good at Maths and will hear teachers say that those children are clever.

Learning to read, however, doesn't happen demonstrably in front of everyone, so no one knows who is best at it. Girls are usually have neater handwriting as their fine motor skills develop quicker, but we don't say they're clever for that. We say they have neat, beautiful handwriting, which conforms to the stereotype of girl's appearance being the important thing. It's much later that the content of a child's writing is judged rather than the letter formation, etc.

I distinctly remember the 'clever' kids in my year 3 class in primary school were 3 boys who were good at maths. It was only when I got to year 6 that I found out I was clever too, and I was best at English.

How about asking the girls the same question at age 9 or 10 ?. I say that because sometimes girls and boys of around the age of 6 are biologically programmed to discover and identify with their sex. It's a stage they grow through IME.

dd1 and dd2 Have innate cleverness and had no trouble succeeding at school or uni. With little 'hard work'.

I have a 6 year old DD and there is definitely a tendency creeping in to categorise things as boys and girls things which we never do at home. I challenge it every time and point out how silly it is to think every girl should like pink and every boy should like football etc. I've taught all of them about suffrage and gender inequality and will continue to as they get older

I hope I'm bucking the trend somewhat (as a teacher and parent of a 6 year old, I would not use stereotypical language about gender).

My DD has a female teacher, headteacher, caretaker, I'm the main earner in our house, we talk about the PM and the Queen leading the country.... she thinks women hold all the cards, and I hope it stays that way!

I'd heard that teachers these days were meant to de-emphasise "clever" (innate), and praise students for their hard work instead. But that's not taking away from the sexism.

I'd heard that teachers these days were meant to de-emphasise "clever" (innate), and praise students for their hard work instead. But that's not taking away from the sexism.