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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why do so many men turn bad...?

418 replies

Destinysdaughter · 27/01/2017 18:44

Was just thinking about this, May be simplistic but was wondering why so many men end up being rapists, paedophiles, DV abusers, stalkers etc?

Is it something in their family background, being a victim of abuse themselves, conditioning, or something else?

OP posts:
eminismsux · 01/02/2017 22:20

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venusinscorpio · 01/02/2017 22:16

Then what you say is pure speculation, Josef.

JosefK · 01/02/2017 22:13

If you're saying there are broad cultural differences, then I agree.

But if the culture changed then so, theoretically, would the patterns of behaviour.

There are no female Hitler's and Stalin's because women have not had the opportunity or the cultural licence to do that kind of damage.

JosefK · 01/02/2017 22:10

Women have probably spent more money on the family because that has been their role. Women have been socialised to believe that they are primary carers, just like men have been socialised to believe they are aggressors.

But that doesn't mean men and women are fundamentally, innately different.

If you gave a woman enormous power - if she commanded nations and armies - then she could behave just as awfully as a man.

I am completely against this idea that men and women are born with inherently diffetent psychological characteristics.

AskBasil · 01/02/2017 22:09

Also the other thing I said which you found "strange" was:

" I think the biological aspect of carrying, birthing and nurturing other human beings, would probably have prevented women developing an ideology that de-humanised half the human race."

It's almost like you didn't read the arguments I made.

AskBasil · 01/02/2017 22:05

"For what reason do you think women would be any different in power? That's a strange idea."

Immediately before your post, I explained why I think women would be different. Because they are. This is why charities try and ensure that women hold the purse strings in the developing world, becuase when women control the resources, they are spread more evenly and fairly.

For the same reason the Labour government when it introduced family allowance (later child benefit), paid it to the mother, not the father; women spend family money on the family, men spend it on themselves.

Obviously not in all cases, but those are the broad patterns. Study after study across cultures bears this out.

OlennasWimple · 01/02/2017 20:50

Anyway, back to the OP...

It's a really interesting question. I wonder whether there is a similar proportion of women who "turn bad" but it's expressed in different ways (as someone said upthread, self-harm rather than violence towards another).

But I find it striking that the women who are involved in the most heinous activities - going by the notorious cases that have gone to trial, at least - are often either on the periphery of the crime (Maxine Carr, for example) and / or are only involved through their partner's involvement (Myra Hindley, rose West, for example).

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/02/2017 16:15

Feministsareuseles are you for real?

I suggest you hang out a little in Feminism, particularly at night. Then you may understand why we get a little testy sometimes.

Lessthanaballpark · 01/02/2017 15:43

Josefk being trolled is par for the course on a feminist thread.

marylennoxwasanaspie · 01/02/2017 09:14

JosefK course it isn't for real. Just report and/or ignore.Smile

JosefK · 01/02/2017 08:27

Feministsareuseles are you for real?

RebelRogue · 01/02/2017 07:21

Weewee? Seriously? GrinGrinGrin I might not have one, but at least I can say penis.

scaryclown · 01/02/2017 06:11

i think its quite simple. Love.
Men dont get love from men that engages with who they are inside, more for who they project publically with all its caveats and protections against intimacy. Men without women..or in very male environments as the workplace has been become very transactional and men without either women or work can have no status or love or respect irrespective of ability, and some crack and act to take that power back. Lack of love is damaging because it also tends to cause people to hate you rather than love you more..and as men are often'supposed to hide vulnerability. . its not expressed and gets worse..

Also many things described here are where being 'bad' is tge behaviour that gets rewards. i even remember the 'bad' (violemt) men at school getting all the social rewards, which i dont know if it was an intentional game, but a lot of my female friends ..often the more intelligemt ones too..would sort of give 'points' to boys being bad, not doing homework or being rebellious. It might have been a way to keep.marks down i suppose like a soft power.. (i went to a school where stupidly teachers and pupils acted as if ranking within the school was important, rather than ranking in the country iyswim)

Lessthanaballpark · 01/02/2017 05:23

Haha! It's like Freud has come back from the grave for an online visit. Is it just me picturing Joey from Friends singing "All you want is a ding dong...."?!

Feministsareuseless · 01/02/2017 05:21

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/02/2017 00:12

Venus - I wouldn't waste my energy if I were you :)

cadnowyllt · 31/01/2017 23:55

Only 5 for goodness sake. I thought there was as a lot of support for single sex spaces. Genuinely think it would make for a better society

venusinscorpio · 31/01/2017 23:51

Had quite a few pints in your men only bar, did you cadno?

cadnowyllt · 31/01/2017 23:49

Ooo...an anecdote, must be true across the board then...

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/01/2017 23:42

I am incredibly jaded, but from late 30s ALL the men I know have gone bad. Not rapists and murder etc, but without exception all the men, and it is predominantly white upper middle class men, are indulging in prostitutes, drugs, affairs, selfish behaviour in other ways, not wanting to pay tax, belittling their wives, not doing their share, peacocking

Yeah - this is what I meant re sociopathic / psychopathic male behaviours just being the volume turned up on these kinds of activities. A lower level of abuse of women is not only tolerated, it's often seen as natural and 'just how things are' and certain activities are even protected in law.

I see similar kinds of behaviours across the social classes, though.

The men that make me raise my eyebrows a lot are the ones that talk the talk of being enlightened feminist men. I say 'oh yes'. and wait for the shoe to drop. It usually does and when it does so it is spectacular with copious amounts self-justification, posturing, whining and mansplaining.

The crunch point is often a point where a man is asked to give up his privilege or actually walk the walk in making a decision or choosing a behaviour that will not be to his benefit. A case in point was a man who was offered a career move in his 30s which involved a change of locale to somewhere remote and with diminished opportunity for everyone but him. He had three young daughters and a wife as well as family in his home city. All had hobbies, schools etc. and there was extended family to help care for the children. The wife was just returning to work / her career. Up to this point, he was Mr Feminist - the nice guy who had read the books (and quoted from them) and participated equally in childcare (so he said) and was always so supportive. Then ... 'BANG'. It was almost as if a switch flipped and it was all about him and his career and his wife didn't understand and why couldn't it be about him blah, blah, blah. In the end, the typical happened with the family following Him and His Career.

That's just one example I could cite many more. It's easy to be a 'nice guy' when you are not challenged, but it's amazing how many men claim male power and privilege when not doing so would in some way diminish them, their chances, etc. It's a little like benevolent monarchs. Yes, they do nice things for their subjects, but deep down everyone knows that they still have the power and the privilege and can and will use it if it benefits them and that they have no real intention of giving this up.

cadnowyllt · 31/01/2017 23:32

Single sex spaces for women and men. Spread the joy

GlobalTechIndustries · 31/01/2017 23:30

A book called why good people turn evil by philip zimbardo makes for an interesting read

GlobalTechIndustries · 31/01/2017 23:30

A book called why good people turn evil by philip zimbardo makes for an interesting read

venusinscorpio · 31/01/2017 23:14

You do surprise me, cadno.

cadnowyllt · 31/01/2017 22:59

Went to a pub tonight, (yeah Tuesday evening) full of men, the only woman was the barmaid - such a fantastically chilled atmos.

More Single sex spaces says I.