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Original poster

Women who sexually abuse

58 replies

msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 11:18

I raised this issue within another thread and was urged to start my own thread rather than derail the discussion. So I have.

I referred to a conference, some years ago, focusing on the perpetration of child sex abuse by women. A number of women calling themselves feminists turned up at the event. The conference organiser reports that:

"They stood up and started yelling about how terrible it was that I was detracting from the fact that male power was to blame."

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/female-sexual-abuse-the-untold-story-of-societys-last-taboo-1767688.html

I referred to this incident to illustrate a point I was struggling to make: that a binary model of gender oppression is valid and necessary, but if applied to all the permutations of abusive pathology that arise within a complex social reality it can prove problematic.

Surprisingly, one poster said the women were right to speak up. As any attempt to increase awareness of CSA and speak up for its victims is a self-evidently good thing, this seemed a problematic attitude to take.

Please understand: I in no way mean to suggest this attitude is characteristic of feminists. Neither am I attempting to detract from or downplay the fact that the overwhelming majority of CSA (and sexual violence of all kinds) is perpetrated by males.

However, the sexual victimisation of children by women is taboo. And it strikes me that some feminists are so uncomfortable with the fact that women are capable of sexual violation as well as men that they unwittingly perpetuate this taboo. This attitude perpetuates myths and stereotypes that are enormously damaging to victims who often suffer in silence for their entire lives because they have internalised these patriarchal tropes.

I would be interested to read any thoughts anyone has on this issue from a feminist perspective.

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SpicyTomatos · 24/01/2017 19:44

There was this case. As someone put it: he was failed by his babysitter, failed by his father and failed by the state

I found the comments quite eye opening at the time as there were a number of anecdotal stories that implied it was much more common than people think.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/05/babysitter-who-had-sex-with-11-year-old-boy-gets-suspended-sentence

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:42

Of course not. I was responding to a poster who was asking what feminism had to do with it. I'm not blaming feminists for this. If anything blame lies squarely with patriarchal myths that suggest women are innately submissive and nurturing and men innately sexually aggressive.

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Miffer · 24/01/2017 19:34

As long as feminists accept that women can be paedophiles there isn't a problem.

Fucking hell. What about the hurdles? The victims? The other emotive hyperbole? Does that all get sorted if all people who identify as feminists think this certain thing?!

HelenDenver · 24/01/2017 19:31

That is accepted.

So, are we done?

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:31

That there exist women who molest children not at the behest of a man but because they're paedophiles. Because they get off on molesting children.

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Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:30

As long as feminists accept that women can be paedophiles there isn't a problem.

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AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2017 19:26

So, it's difficult for any victim of abuse to disclose it and risk being disbelieved? Or at least you think there's a perception that this is the case.

What do you think society needs to do to address this, and what role do you think feminism has to play in this?

picklemepopcorn · 24/01/2017 19:25

In terms of protecting children, we have to recognise that anyone could be a risk regardless of gender/sex. However, from a risk assessment point of view, men offer a higher risk statistically speaking.

Often female perpetrators are connected with (acting on the instruction of) men rather than acting alone. Another reason to ensure women have the opportunity to establish lives independent of men.

There seems to be a category of abuser who fixates (emotionally?) on a teen aged boy say ten or so years younger and believes them self to be in a consensual relationship. Different again.

ChocChocPorridge · 24/01/2017 19:24

OK.. so.. what's that got to do with your OP? We all agree with you there... but you wanted to talk about women I thought?

DeviTheGaelet · 24/01/2017 19:23
Biscuit
Miffer · 24/01/2017 19:23

No, just different ones. I want a world where every victim is able to overcome the social hurdles that prevent them from disclosing what happened to them. Where every evil, sick piece of filth who is prepared to consign a child to a life and death of torment for a twisted thrill can be brought to justice.

That's a lot of words with no actual content. What, how, why?

It's really difficult to discuss this with you when you have no content in your posts.

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:22

Do boys have the same responses when they report abuse by men?

They're probably often different again, I would imagine.

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Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:21

I thought you were suggesting that there were extra hurdles when they were reporting assault perpetrated by other women?

No, just different ones. I want a world where every victim is able to overcome the social hurdles that prevent them from disclosing what happened to them. Where every evil, sick piece of filth who is prepared to consign a child to a life and death of torment for a twisted thrill can be brought to justice.

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AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2017 19:18

Do boys have the same responses when they report abuse by men?

ChocChocPorridge · 24/01/2017 19:14

Sorry, I thought you wanted to talk about female abusers - not male ones as in your last post?

We all know that women and girls have all sorts of issues reporting assault - I thought you were suggesting that there were extra hurdles when they were reporting assault perpetrated by other women?

ChocChocPorridge · 24/01/2017 19:13

I would argue that there are often unique features to the experience of female perpetrated sexual abuse as well as sociocultural implications that require a specific focus.

You might argue that, but it seems that the charities, organisations and experts who are actively supporting victims right now, as Devi and I linked to above, don't share that opinion - at least as far as initial contact is concerned.

Yes, I'm sure that when it comes to individual counselling they'll talk more about the different aspects, but really, is that something that needs to be publicised? Will victims actually feel better by publicly discussing the things that might have been done to them? Sounds more like ghoulish interest to me, rather than victim support.

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:13

Potentially any of them. I have.

After all females get all sorts of negative responses when they report abuse. 'Boys will be boys', 'Were you leading him on? ' etc. There are lots of sexist, pernicious myths that manifest when women and girls report being sexually violated.

Wouldn't you say?

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HelenDenver · 24/01/2017 19:09

It's interesting that you claim to be about a focus on victims, but your thread title isn't that.

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:07

AyeAmarok you don't have to engage with me. This is my thread and if you engage it is because you have chosen to.

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AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2017 19:06

Who would they get that response from? Family members or professionals/people outside the family?

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 19:05

Do you think that if a child disclosed that they were being abused by a woman today that they would get that response?

Quite possibly, yes.

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AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2017 19:03

I'm not being disingenuous. They are not things I've heard widely said about female perpetrators. It's not a well known cultural phenomenon. I'm not denying that they were said to you.

Do you think that if a child disclosed that they were being abused by a woman today that they would get that response?

AyeAmarok · 24/01/2017 19:02

I'm not engaging with you, mouse.

I have no interest in your straw man argument, and I question the motives of a person who registers on a website like this to post incessantly on the feminist board seemingly for the sole purpose of derailing a discussion, under the guise of a very transparent faux-concern for the victims of CSA committed by women, and accusing posters of saying things that they never said.

Play innocent all you like.

Original poster
msanonymouse · 24/01/2017 18:58

Do not be disingenuous. I have been molested by a woman and have encountered those misconceptions time and again - from men, women, counsellors, friends and loved ones.

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AssassinatedBeauty · 24/01/2017 18:55

Those are not cultural misconceptions that I recognise. Which culture are they prevalent in?