DD and the trans thing. She's really sucked in and not able to see an alternative view

That's nice, that you're ok with it. How lovely. Other women aren't? Fuck them.

I don't see trans women having equal rights to us as interfering with my rights in any way. There is no conflict. I have a right to access to a toilet. I don't have a right to access to a toilet without people I don't trust (because of my own prejudice) in it.

And that's bollocks. The idea of not letting any man who feels like it self identify as a woman is not just based on extremist transactivists. It is based on respect for the privacy, dignity and boundaries of women and girls as well as safety.

And I'm fine with trans women in women's prisons, trans women in my bathroom, trans women in roles supporting victims of rape. You can't treat and legislate trans people as if they are potential criminals in the same way as thankfully gay men have stopped being treated as potential pedophiles.

Why do their rights involve shitting on ours? Why do they trump ours? Why are their feelings all important and ours not worth shit?

Every single argument against the trans movement is based on the actions of bad people (posing as trans) or extremists.

You can't shit on the rights of trans people because of the actions of these people. That is human rights in its most basic form.

Ouriana

He should be made to first define the word 'woman', before he decides anything about them.

I wonder if this video carries any weight on this debate?

My point is, it is the harassment that is the issue and there are laws to deal with this regardless of gender

I've never understood this. The way to control sexual crime is generally not to provide potential offenders with unfettered access to their victims. Then take a 'wait and see approach'.

The laws being given their second reading on 24th February are recommending that all criteria for trans is removed, in favour of self identification.

That means every predatory man, rapist, peadophile - in fact any criminal at all, whether trans or not, whether they have a record or not, is given legitimate access purely on their say so alone.

'Wait and see' seems a high price for women and girls to pay to accommodate less than 0.3% of the population.

crazycatguy what do the people who harassed you in the shower and the people who harass women in general have in common?

A: they have dicks. Women don't sexually harass other women, or men, in numbers significant enough to represent a likely possibility in public showers. Not even lesbians. I'd feel safer in a shower with 50 lesbians than one man, or one trans identifying male person with a male body.

And I have argued against that POV, citing statistics regarding this issue.

You haven't come back wiht any arguments which demonstrate why the status quo re how badly the laws around this work, will somehow change once men are legally allowed to prance into women's private spaces.

I wasn't actually referring to you when talking about flouncing. But you appear to have taken it personally. Why is that?

Venus nicely proving my point.

Why come on here when the arguments are not the arguments I am making. You are just insulting.

And yet again AskBasil has put words in my mouth..."So why are you pretending that women will jsut report male harassment in showers"

I didn't 'pretend' fucking anything. I said there were laws that would prevent reporting it being a hate crime.

Perhaps people don't flounce they just get fed up of banging their head on the wall.

" If people get faddish about it, so be it, they'll soon realise this isn't them and questioning of sexuality and gender identity has always been a part of being a teenager. "

Taking hormones and double mastectomies or inverting your penis, hasn't been however.

Too many young people are going to look back to transition with regret, for us to just abdicate our responsibility to protect them with a "so be it". No. We owe children and young people more than that.

Sorry x posted.

Ok I can understand you're doing a thought experiment, but in the RW, women so rarely harass other women that we've done that, been there adn the reasonable conclusion still has to be, that men are more of a threat to women, than other women are.

Nicely passively aggressively done Bitof.

thejungsoul.com/guidance-for-parents-of-teens-with-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

I wish this had been around when my child came out suddenly with gender dysphoria aged 14. Although he may still have gone on to transition I would have appreciated this sort of advice and information at that time. Unfortunately there was nothing like this then.

So why are you pretending that women will jsut report male harassment in showers bitof, when you are aware that a) they don't and b) if they do, they're not listened to?

What's your aim here?

I'm a man. Been sexually harassed by a man at work and been wanked at in the gym showers.

Although most cases of sexual harassment are man on woman, it's clearly wrong to suggest all of it is.

It's also wrong to suggest transexuality/pansexuality is an invention of the past ten years. People are just more open about it now and as such, more supportive. If people get faddish about it, so be it, they'll soon realise this isn't them and questioning of sexuality and gender identity has always been a part of being a teenager.

Coming out was 'trendy' 10 or so years ago and it's fair to say that some kids who came out are now in happy heterosexual relationships. I got beaten up and hospitalised for the same thing 18 years ago. (mine was genuine!) Know which situation I'd soon be in.

Venus you could make that point. However, I came on here to make a couple of relatively trivial points and have been forced to defend and clarify.

I don't think I will flounce away but rather it seems that as views are entrenched and feelings run high and I am not sufficiently well informed to argue as I would like so I will just leave it to those who feel they know best.

I don't think it's gender critical feminists who are rejecting open dialogue.

Which is why people seldom argue for long, and they flounce off and hide the thread. Because obviously they don't really have the courage of their convictions.

I think the people in these threads do listen to opposing views. They are just able to counter any bullshit argument, and people don't like it and get defensive.