The effect of porn on teenage boys and young men

Just popping back quickly to say something DD just pointed out.

She said that even where a Dad uses porn, and even where the Mum is ok with her husband using porn, it's no reason why both Dad and Mum should not discuss the potential harm it could do not only their son, but also future interactions with girls.

That I've warned her about the dangers of smoking even though I smoke myself. That just because a lot of people do it she is confident to say no when she's been offered a vape (another problem with the y7s). Similar with alcohol too. That even though some people smoke and drink responsibly, they still earn their DCs about potential harm. That even though some men feel thatbtheybuse port with no negatives on their lives, it doesn't mean their own son will and it's irresponsible for parents to not warn them, or give them the confidence to say no and that not watching does not make them less of a boy/man.

That maybe the "here come and watch this watch woman take two up the arse" is the new "here have a puff on this" and if it's possible to warn against smoking without smokers getting offended then surely we can teach boys about the possible dangers of porn on their lives without men using porn getting defensive?

Yes - i think it's reasonable to assume that anyway. They may feel some associated shame but clearly this is not sufficient to stop them consuming it.

"technology allows men to consume it without the shame that was associated with it before."

So they weren't ashamed of consuming it- they were only ashamed of being caught buying it?

Growapear- should people not feel ashamed when they view images of people being abused and exploited?

They should indeed if they think that is what they are looking at. But a lot of porn i.e. that on reddit is made by women who take pictures of themselves doing stuff they think men will find sexy. It seems like there is an inherent imbalance between the sexuality of men and women - I see porn as an expression of that now that technology allows men to consume it without the shame that was associated with it before.

In order for it to change it would need to be accepted that a lot of male sexuality is basically harmful and needs to be repressed. It reminds me somewhat of the "I wish my wife was as dirty as this van" type messages you see. Where does it all come from ? I think that some men feel resentful about the fact they find women attractive at all and they hate the power that they think women have over them because of this. This is the prevalent strand of thought on bullshit like MGOTW etc. A lot of porn seems like a manifestation of this. Men are all dangerous rapists, well fuck it - might as well stop pretending we don't like watching it.

I actually think ISPs blocking it would be pretty effective if the political will could be found.

Werkzallhourz. That's hideous.

I once made the mistake of googling the word "porn" and then looking at some of the stuff from the sites in the top results. It was in reaction to being told on here that feminists pretend that the really hard-core stuff is much more prevalent than it is and that mainstream porn is not hard-core and there is nothing wrong with it. I copied and pasted some of the video titles on the thread (they were foul). I looked at some of the videos to check that they were as bad as the titles. They were. I wish I could unsee them and I wish I hadn't been so stupid as to look. One in particular comes back to haunt me.

Yes.

I've said what I think men can and should do. If you don't like that why not come up with another solution.

How about men just make up their own minds?

That's your answer?

"n other words it is not clear whether the feminist argument is against all visual media designed to titillate, or against titillating visual media that promotes and perpetuates the patriarchal abuse of women."

How about men just make up their own minds?

Doesn't surprise me at all werk, and it chimes with some research a friend is doing about how, no matter what the pornhounds want women to think, this is mainstream stuff.

I think it might very well be a lot worse than we think.

I did some research a few years ago on tumblr subcultures, and came across some porn where I am pretty sure it was footage taken of trafficked women kept in isolated situations and abused. They did not look or behave in a manner where they came across as consenting adults.

In one particular photo I found, I think the woman might actually have been dead.

Can I just reiterate? This was on tumblr, not some weird deviant site behind a paywall or on the darknet.

What is the solution though? Should all porn to be restricted or regulated? Or only porn produced by men which degrades women?

I'm broadly anti-porn but I find the feminist agenda on it sometimes a bit inconsistent and incoherent. In fact, feminists themselves are very divided over it and have been for the last 40 years.

In other words it is not clear whether the feminist argument is against all visual media designed to titillate, or against titillating visual media that promotes and perpetuates the patriarchal abuse of women.

Round of applause for Spartacus. Thank you for that excellent post.

I'm so sorry your DD and you are having to deal with this shit. My eldest DD describes similar things.

A boy was suspended from school for taking an upskirt photo of a girl and then diffusing it with a porny comment added. The girl was devastated obviously, not only by what he did but the sniggering, bullying crap from loads of other boys who had seen the image. And of course you can imagine how it made all the other girls feel.

And yes the boy might be sanctioned but the harm to the girls is done (and indeed to the boy).

Oh Spartacus. What an awful situation. My DD is 11/Y6. I just cannot bear the thought of people, other pupils treating her like that. She doesn't know what prostitution even is yet.
DH and i have already discussed what we'll have to talk to her about before she goes to secondary in September, but it's horrible to think of doing that.

And actually loads of porn is deeply racist but it's being done to women and its sexxay so nobody gives a shit. The women of colour in porn are not considered to people.

Growapear- should people not feel ashamed when they view images of people being abused and exploited? Personally I feel sickened, and I like/enjoy sex as much as anyone else. Filmed prostitution is a good term for it, and we know that the majority of women working in prostitution in UK are trafficked.

Excellent post, Spartacus.

Very true BertrandRussell. It's not that they don't want to it's just that it's impossible for men to change their behaviour unfortunately. There is the will, there just is no way.

Link to wiki article about hate speech. It is a perfect description of the phenomenon of pornography. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation.[1][2] In the law of some countries, hate speech is described as speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it incites violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected group, or individual on the basis of their membership to the group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected group, or individual on the basis of their membership to the group. The law may identify a protected group by certain characteristics.[3][4][5] In the law of other countries, hate speech is not a legal term.[6] In some countries, a victim of hate speech may seek redress under civil law, criminal law, or both. A website that uses hate speech is called a hate site.

"Porn users don't need to be in a relationship with someone to have opportunities to do harm based on what they see in porn e.g. they can do harm during one night stands or rapes etc."

Adding to Venus's reply to pear: the "pornhounds" (lovely) contribute to the harm of the women in the films. If there is more demand for more harmful porn, more of it will be made and more women harmed in its making.

This might be long and I apologise.

I used to read these forums a few years ago and think the feminists were overreacting. I used to think porn was harmless and something most men do, and some women. That the actors were paid good money and that it's probably empowered the women.

I took a look at a few sites to see if the mainstream stuff is as bad as the feminists here say it is, and I was horrified. Women being spat on, women being slapped, women having their genitals slapped, women being made to gag during oral, women having cocks roughly shoved up their anus. All this is on the front page and what constitutes as normal and mainstream.

Yes there's some "ethical" porn, but that's usually behind a price tag and has to be saught out. Our ten year old sons are not accessing that stuff, they are accessing the violent and misoginistic stuff.

I first had to discuss porn with dd when she was about 7 years old, one of the kids in her class had seen a very violent porn clip and dd had heard him telling his mates about it. The boys parents laughed it off, boys will be boys, he's a hot blooded male with Dad even saying "that's my boy".

I reported it to the school, I felt bad doing it as the Mum was one of my close friends at the time but if she was sticking her head in the sand and even saying there's nothing wrong with it as all boys and men will watch it. Mum tried to tackle it a little a few years later, not because they were worried about their son but because their son had stolen their credit card and used it on web cam sites when he was about 9. Again, it wasn't her son to blame, the Internet company should have known that it was a child's device and blocked it, the bank shouldn't have let card be used on sites like that as they should know it was unusual transaction, every excuse under the sun to prevent her son taking any responsibilty. No gadgets were removed, Internet was left unsupervised etc.

There been instances of the boy trying to yank girls trousers down from 8 year old onwards, he tried it with my dd during an after school club, he'd also hit her if she was winning him, and I played merry hell, school had serious talks with him, but his parents didn't back it up at home and were cross that their DS was being bullied by the school for totally normal behaviour.

I told Mum it was me who reported it, she was angry I didn't speak to her first but I know she'd have told dd she was being silly, that it's normal and i told her it's not normal for 8 year old girls to have to worry about their trousers and underwear yanked down at school.

The boy is 12 now and really struggles to maintain friendships, girls avoid him, which his Mum is annoyed about, as his peers have "girlfriends" but her son doesn't have one because girls are bitches and only pick good looking boys.

Dd started secondary school and dd hates using the school bus because everyday there's boys watching porn at the back and if she has to sit near the back she has to hear it, she's a confident and opinionated young girl but she says she feels intimidated and not confident enough to stand up to 9 or 10 boys aging from 11 to 16. The language the Y7s use about girls is also disgusting.

Dd will not pick anything up if she drops it on the floor because some of the boys will run up and simulate doggy sex, or make comments about the girl wanting one up the arse. School do take it seriously and some y7s have been expelled, they have a full morning or full afternoon where they have pastoral time and it's being spoken about then, but its angered a lot of parents of the boys that the girls complaints of having hips grabbed from behind and grinded on is being taken seriously. Girls just need to learn to take a joke. A boys education could be ruined because of girls reporting trivial things.

I can't my head around it and it makes me angry. I'm really thankful to Mumsnet and the feminists who have been discussing this because it's helped me talk to dd about this stuff before it happens. I think boys need to spoken to about it before they get to the age of being shown it/ watching it too. By parents as well as schools. Its really not enough to just hope they won't look at it.

I'm going to sound like a cunt now, but while I feel bad that these boys may grow up to have erectile function problems, or trouble having an actual relationship with females. I'm going to put all my resources into helping dd be confident in saying no to whatever she feels like re sex, and that when someone says "most men do it" or "what's wrong with you it's normal" to try and get her to do something she's not comfortable with to run for the hills. If boys and men think erectile dis function is caused by porn then boys and men need to start suggesting actions that will work, start campaigning for funds etc. It's not women's job to do it on their behalf, especially when they are told most men do it.

I guess a big part women can play in changing attitudes is speaking to their sons about porn, but from my experience many won't because they have dps or dhs who use porn themselves or because they think all men watch it etc.

Also the nudes in the workplace, my dh works in construction, and despite being an all male environment there's never been anyone even wanting naked calendars or posters or whatever. Dh def would speak up, he's done it in the pub when conversations have gone dodgy. He's seen porn when he was younger but doesn't watch it, he's as horrified by the whole thing as much as I am and also speaks to dd about this stuff.

Yes, but Bertrand, that's because these are nice guys and why should nice guys take responsibility for their actions when there are really bad guys out there?

I've said before that there are a number of things that men could do now - 2.05 on January 16th 2017- that would make a massive leap forward forward for equality. One is to stop using porn. The other is to always call other men out on sexist language and behavior.

It's amazing how ruffled and hot and bothered and worried men get when you suggest these things. They start using long words, and quoting from books and thinking up lots of reasons why it's impossible........

HerOtherHalf, I think we do need it recognised as hate speech. Because otherwise feminists and people who want to stop the tidal wave of pornography are going to find themselves forever in a negotiation of where the line should be drawn that will be framed by pornhounds, MRAs, libertarians, neo-liberals and many others as moralistic.

We will (and are currently) be accused of moralistic pearl clutching, prudishness, failing to be sex positive, opposed to freedom, denying women in porn agency, etc, etc.

The problem feminist analysis has with porn is not that it is rude but that it is harmful and hateful.

So Beach - you must think that the majority of men (all who watch porn) should be ashamed of themselves and their desire to watch it ?

I don't really think about it in those terms. I think men need to take responsibility for their porn consumption and I think they should analyse it and think about what their choice to consume porn really is. It isn't just about being titillated whilst masturbating - it is actively contributing to harm to girls and women and an endorsement of sexualized violence and the dissemination of graphic images of that sexualized violence.

I think a lot of men do feel shame after consuming porn because they know very well that what they have seen is misogynistic and harmful.

Someone said upthread that "nobody can stop porn". That's a ridiculous statement. Pornography is overwhelmingly produced, distributed, sold and consumed by men. Men can stop it.

But in order to stop it they need to recognize that female humanity, dignity, safety and personhood are worth more than men's orgasms and that making money from filming and disseminating films of sexualized abuse and violence is criminal. Which is why, IMO, we need recognition that pornography is hate speech. And that has to happen on a legal level and IMO at a human rights level.

Can you imagine what the reaction would be if people were making, diffusing and watching films of white people abusing people of colour with racist slurs and violence on a grand scale? Decent people would be outraged and it would be recognized as hate speech and declared illegal.

growapear wrote - "surely a good thing that any pornhounds are unable to maintain either an erection or a relationship no ?"

I suspect that men who use porn but have erectile problems are likely to search for ever more extreme and ever more harmful porn. I think that the increase in severity of porn that is produced to meet this demand is not a good thing.

Porn users don't need to be in a relationship with someone to have opportunities to do harm based on what they see in porn e.g. they can do harm during one night stands or rapes etc.

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