The effect of porn on teenage boys and young men

But thanks for the good laugh. You don't disappoint.

Of course female sexual freedom is going to look nothing like the majority of male oriented, misogynistic porn. Anal sex, facials, double penetration and deep throating until women gag. Tedious in the extreme.

Porn is a breach of men's rights too. Men and boys are abused too. And women make porn too. I'm not saying it is not predominantly patriarchal and male-dominated in nature, but it does transcend that now.

We need to be very clear: ALL porn, whoever it features and whoever it is made by, is wrong.

The 'Feminist Porn Awards' deserves nothing but derision.

Oh right. You don't know what porn is. Or you're taking the piss. One or the other.

Your definitions do not become factual by the intensity of your solipsism.

Yes it can. There are, and have to be, limits on all forms of self-expression.

The somewhat important clause there is "where there is evidence of harm to others". No doubt you can produce all sorts of evidence to support your position. I can produce all sorts of studies to support mine. But my greatest possible piece of evidence is the unending centuries of female oppression that was defined by, at it's core, the suppression and control of female sexuality. We can see what suppression of female sexual freedom looks like. We're barely aware of what free female sexuality looks like. It very likely looks nothing like porn, but we'll never know if people continue to modify patriarchal moral limitations and call it 'protecting women'. After all, isn't that what the patriarchs used to claim?

But isn't the main argument here that there is not stringent oversight to ensure consent?

I very much agree with you that ensuring legitimate consent lies at the core of this discussion, as it does with so much regarding gender interaction. I think the problem is that the question of where consent comes from - whether from an individuals genuine choice, or from social pressure - is still so fantastically murky both on a social and individual level that the best that can be expected is the aggressive, legalistic framework that presently exists.

Some of the people on this thread are a little obtuse, to put it nicely. I get that you don't agree for whatever reasons, but that you can't even get your head around the argument that porn is a breach of women's human rights?

Meph your liberatarian, pro-capitalist morality of free choice rules is such bullshit. What you are effectively saying is that any values judgments concerning the porn industry suggest a repressive Victorianism. That's rubbish.

Are you saying a Syrian refugee being urinated on for entertainment takes place in a complex of morally neutral transactions?

Pornography also violates the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women.

www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/cedaw/text/econvention.htm#article1

Pornography is a form of discrimination against girls and women and it promotes discrimination against girls and women. And it thereby impedes girls and women achieving equality and equality of dignity and rights (Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights).

All the stuff is there to take a stand against pornography. There are international treaties, human rights declarations and UN commissions that have already done the heavy lifting. It justs needs to be applied.

BetrandRussell is correct that men should just stop consuming porn. They should stop producing it, distributing it and selling it too. They should stop because pornography is harmful and hateful and the harm and hate are gendered.

but no moral argument can be made for constraining her rights to self expression.

Yes it can. There are, and have to be, limits on all forms of self-expression.

This is otherwise known as civilisation.

"No, pornography is an expression of female sexuality in a performative, transactional format."

Oh right. You don't know what porn is. Or you're taking the piss. One or the other.

You actually think pornhub is making most of its money from amateur videos?

No, but but Pornhub is not making any videos.

And I am very interested in understanding.

MephistophelesApprentice but isn't the main argument here that there is not stringent oversight to ensure consent?

I don't identify as a man anymore. But I can Attackcoptersplain if that would help.

No, pornography is an expression of female sexuality in a performative, transactional format. No woman should be compelled to adopt said format, but no moral argument can be made for constraining her rights to self expression.

Should porn be restricted to adults? At this time in our social evolution, sure. Should there be stringent oversight to ensure consent? Hell, I think that individual sexual acts should have such oversight - Big Brother in the bedroom, bring it on. Should education clarify the unreality of porn? Apparently it is necessary, so yes. But forcing your own archaic sexual mores on others is unacceptable and that is what you are suggesting.

Come on Mephistopheles, I need a laugh. Mansplain the evolution of women's sexual freedom to us, why don't you.

Oh right. So online pornography should be renamed "the free expression of female sexuality".
I would laugh if I could stop crying.

I mean, honestly; what is this but a continuation of the old victorian moral prescriptions where men wanted sex, but woman had to firmly lock sexuality within the moral limits of procreation. Where any woman who expressed sexuality beyond the limits of the marriage bed, or for any purpose other than babies, was a fallen (degraded) woman. If you want to play out such old fashioned, barbaric and oppressive gender roles in your life, keep it in your bedroom. I do.

Are we discussing "the free expression of female sexuality"? Is that what the multi billion dollar sex industry is founded on? I think not.

"We need firm concrete legal action now."

Perhaps pornography should be viewed/classified the same as the stuff involving children. Progress has been made (I think) in combating those sorts of things. I mean there is a legal framework and enforcement.

Pink
Yes, this is something I want to understand. Maybe if we infiltrated porn with videos of breastfeeding it would become mainstream and no one would get triggered if they saw it in public.

You are joking, aren't you??

So you want to sexualise breastfeeding because ppl (usually male) are uncomfortable with seeing a natural feeding process? Yeah, I can see how that would work out well. So they don't get 'triggered' by seeing it in public. FFS.

It's amazing that you think the free expression of female sexuality is degrading when outside of your personal sexual preferences.

Extraordinary to think that wanting men not to wank over degrading images of women is considered a "stunted, myopic moral fetish"

Pink, You don't understand how a culture of extreme porn and exploitation of women could possible be considered something that violates the right to equality of dignity for women?

Why don't you stop pushing your stunted, myopic moral fetishes onto other people?