Using 'Mrs'

As I said, the only people who find it hard to pronounce ar the people who have to put verbal air quotes round it, and make a special little "look at me using this silly word" face. The rest of us just say Miz.

I agree that people who think it's hard to pronounce just seem a trifle silly. They are able to pronounce other words with z sounds. One of the advantages of living in the American South is that for many years, Mrs has been pronounced Miz by most people. It made it easier to get people used to Ms. And of course no one complains that it is an ugly sound.

And I must say the claims that Ms is difficult to pronounce make me

Yes Seneca you do seem way ahead on this in the US. And I've noticed in US dramas that Ms seems to be the default formal way to address females. Sounds serious and grown-up. And everyone seems to just pronounce it 'miz' which is the obvious way I would have thought. It's only in the UK that I have sometimes heard people exaggeratedly saying 'muzz' , usually with a subtext of 'OMG what is the ridiculous title you are insisting on using, you silly woman - now are you really Miss or Mrs?'.

Interesting what you say about no titles asked for on forms in the US and formal letters beginning 'Dear Jane Smith'. I have heard it is the same in Scandinavian countries.

Mrs = married woman. It will always mean 'married'.

Ms = adult woman, marital status unknown.

Why OP do you think should Mrs become the default? Are you by any chance a Mrs?

I've been a Ms since I was 14 years or so. If I live to be 114 I will continue to be a Ms.

I am always interested that in the UK titles seem so important. Titles are seldom asked for on forms the US. I have to have a background check for work and the form asks for my sex (well, it says "gender") and all names that I have been known by, which is easy because I didn't change it when I married.

In the US, as has been pointed out, the default is Ms, especially in professional settings. I don't know any married women who use Mrs. And I have noticed that more and more letters are addressed with no title and the salutation is "Dear Jane Smith." This is the Quaker form of address, though I am sure that is not the reason for its use, except maybe in parts of Pennsylvania.

I have speculated before that titles seem much more important in the UK than in the US, perhaps because there are so many more to choose from: lord, lady, sir, dame, etc.

I much prefer Ms. More straightforward. And not at all hard to pronounce - just 'miz' surely. Ms, Miss and Mrs all derive from Mistress, and Mr derives from Master. So back in ye olde days (17th century and previous) adults would all be Master or Mistress, unless they were lords and ladies or royalty.

Miss and Mrs both are commonly used to indicate marital status for females so ideally they should both be dropped, and I am sure they will be eventually.

Great post outsself.

You call yourself Mrs if you want OP. But not me. Ms is better. Doesn't have the connotations.

I am quite happy with 'Mrs' and don't want to be 'Ms'.

I'm old enough to remember that Master and Miss were terms used for the young. I think Master turned into Mr at 18. Miss, otoh, was used until or unless a woman married, which was why feminists objected to it. Lawks! I'm old enough to remember Ms coming in!

I think it was a mistake now. Going for Mrs as equivalent to Mr would have made more sense, as for centuries all adult women were addressed as Mistress. But we went for Ms and I suspect changing it now would just create confusion, though in practice there are now 3 terms for women and 2 for men, which was exactly the reason we came up with Ms in the first place.

"maybe some bright spark was putting your name in the 'previous name' box for you"
What, a lot of different bright sparks over 25 years? Or however long CPS checks have existed?

"MysticTwat's thread suggests it was a flaw in the actual computer system"
So fix the glitch in the system. Don't use it as a reason for not using Ms- that would just be bizarre!

I've never once been questioned in my use of Ms, since I was 17 or so. Not denying others' experiences, just giving my own

Me too. Never been questioned as to why I use it or randomly use Miss or had to explain why my son has a different surname.

maybe some bright spark was putting your name in the 'previous name' box for you- MysticTwat's thread suggests it was a flaw in the actual computer system

Well, it must have been a rogue office. I ave been a Ms all my adult life and been CRB/DBS checked for as long as the checks have existed. Never been a problem.

Some else had problems with the CRB check a few years ago on another thread, it's on page 2

13/06/2014 00:09 EATmum

I used to be involved in CRB checks and we got a load back that were rejected because each person had claimed to be a Ms (shock) but didn't have an entry in the 'previous surname' box. After long conversations with the relevant office, we had to repeat the surname in the 'previous surname' box for the computer not to automatically reject a Ms without a previous name. I ask you...
I have been a Ms always, single and married. That status is my business, no one else's

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2105527-Mr-Mrs-Miss-Ms-Asking-for-your-support?pg=1&order=

Ovaries - you can just use Ms, whenever you like.
And you can continue using your own surname by itself, or combined, or anything you like.

That's good to know, I think I shall be a Ms from now on :)

I love our combined surnames and that we've both got our combined surnames, I just couldn't get used to being "Mrs".

I've never once been questioned in my use of Ms, since I was 17 or so. Not denying others' experiences, just giving my own.

re the DBS/CRB story, I had exactly the same experience, probably about 10 years ago- had the form returned as I had opted for the title Ms, said I was married and not provided any proof of divorce or history of previous name (because I hadn't changed my name, der!)

I think it's all very confusing and unsatisfactory. I don't actually like Ms as it seems so artificial and people don't know how to pronounce it (I'm not sure I know myself really)
I've spent a lot of time in schools and it seems impossible to persuade children (or even other teachers) to use it. So I used to go by Mrs Mysurname. Yet at the same time, kids would always address you as Miiissss. Even in some places, other adults would address you as Miss, especially if they didn't know you- eg 'Miss, I'm sorry to interupt, I need to speak to kevin there'
Which made me think it didn't really matter that much what you were called. Either Mrs Surname or Miss were used as a respectful form of address for a woman.
I think reclaiming Mrs would be a solution, afaik in Germany it's Fraulien until you are 18 then Frau for everyone which is sensible. But now we have Ms in the mix I think we just have to plough on with it. I always use it in formal/official/written situations, but don't insist on it verbally, life's too short. Unless any wanker dares to question me when I tell them my title is Ms. Then they get a hard stare. Or a killer raised eyebrow.

I would be very surprised if anyone routinely said "Master X" to a teenage boy, say!

I think boys are Master until they are eight ( when they fledged to school) then just their name until 18 when they became Mister.
I worked in a very old fashioned investment house when I first graduated and this was the way correspondence regarding boys was addressed.

Ovaries - you can just use Ms, whenever you like.
And you can continue using your own surname by itself, or combined, or anything you like.

Interested to hear people interchangeably using Mrs or Ms or whatever - I've never been married and it wouldn't occur to me to use Mrs, bc I'd assume for example on tax or similar forms I'd then have to explain my marriage status/ history

In anything official where marital status is relevant there will be a specific question about it.

Divorced women who call themselves "Mrs" are not married (indeed widows are not married)

None of Mr, Ms or Miss tell you anything about the person's marital status , so if marital status is relevant there needs to be an explanation box for everyone.

It might be relevant in certain aspects of tax and pensions and obviously when getting married or a father registering a birth but little else.

Interested to hear people interchangeably using Mrs or Ms or whatever - I've never been married and it wouldn't occur to me to use Mrs, bc I'd assume for example on tax or similar forms I'd then have to explain my marriage status/ history

I'm honestly not sure which ones need to know your history. The only time i've needed to show my proof of marriage was when I changed my surname.(After 10 years of having dc I wanted the same surname as them, so we got married) It's wasn't to do with my title more the change of name.

I'm sure before and after on anything official I used Ms.

It was a ballache changing driving licence and passport, but other things I still haven't bothered changing. Mainly laziness.

I still answer to and have things addressed to Ms/Miss/Mrs Maiden name

And get stuff addressed to Ms/Miss/Mrs Married name.

I don't have a title at all on my bank accounts and I'm pretty sure there is no title on child tax credits or benefits, but I'd have to check, if it's anything it'll be Ms

I'd much rather we were saying marriage is not relevant to my status as an adult and should confer absolutely no social or material advantage over single women.

Very well said.