Uncomfortable feelings about the teaching of "consent"

Too

Sorry you feel my answer was ridiculous - it isn't meant to be. If there is some means by which men could stop other men from being violent - without an even bigger threat of violence, then it has thus far eluded humanity. There is a reason that only governments are allowed to form armies - because they control organised violence, and this is not something i just made up - it's Noam Chomsky. This idea that military forces are nothing to do with controlling and directing violence is laughable.

Does this mean that men are inherently violent ? I don't know about that, but the evidence suggests it does. Having millions of unemployed young men for example would generally be of great concern to most countries I would imagine. You asked in your OP about "innate compassion". I don't think it exists, hunter gatherer tribes used to hit their old people over the head when they became too old to keep up apparently. Ideas of compassion and morals are things that we make up in order to cooperate on larger scales, but they aren't real or innate things. That doesn't mean people cannot be made to believe them, obviously they can.

Don't apologise for something that's absolutely not your fault tooticky!

I suggest we stop wasting our time dealing with a racist imbecile, and get back to the discussion, which was actually quite interesting before this person of subnormal intelligence barged in.

I didn't think so, somehow.

No, grow has never wanted to engage with what's being discussed, hence his endless straw manning and whataboutery.

Grow, if you were being specific to a certain kind of driver, then maybe you should have said, because your answer just looks petulant and ridiculous. Anyway, back to the military, you were telling us all about them in your expert way, perhaps you'd care to expand.

I think men can do loads to work towards the end of sexual violence, growapear if you are willing to engage.

Growapear, do you want to actually engage with what's being discussed?

You don't expect anyone to actually spend their time explaining what's wrong with those statements

Of course not we all know what's wrong with them, which is why no one would say them - unless they are talking about "men" in which case it's fair game.

Xeno

Yeah - well known that all the best drivers are women, that's why they command such high fees etc and beat the men...oh wait, they don't

Depends what age xeno - but women as a class are dangerous to children, so the sentence is OK with you I take it ?

Well, except of course that women as a class can drive, cause fewer major accidents and cost the tax payer less money due to driving convictions, so that is empirically incorrect. So, men as a class can't drive.

Men as a class are dangerous to women.

Men as a class are more dangerous to children than women as a class.

Men as a class can kick an air filled bladder about better than women as a class.

Fixed it.

This is getting sillier and sillier. You don't expect anyone to actually spend their time explaining what's wrong with those statements. You're just looking for a fight and not interested in honestly discussing the issues.

ask

"women can't drive".

What's offensive about that ?

"Women are useless at football."

"Men are dangerous to women"

"Women are dangerous to children"

etc. Oh - i don't mean all of them, so it;s OK.

"Great idea - it's 2017 and to think that all the slaughter especially of the last century could have been solved by reading Andrea Dworkin et al. What's the big idea ?"

Well, do you know what, it might be a start. To actual do some self reflection on the nature of male violence. Couldn't hurt.

"The noun "Men" is used here to denote a group who behave in a terrible way. Not "some men" or even "rapists" but doggedly just "men". The intention is clearly to teach that all men are the problem. Guilt by association. Once the veneer is scraped away far ruder statements and generalisations about "men" are made."

"The working classes have stopped voting labour"

"The middle classes were the ones who used fish knives, not the upper classes"

"Flyover America got sick of being ignored so voted Trump"

Do you think in all those examples, every single member of the respective group of people is meant. ALL members of the working classes have stopped voting labour, ALL middle class people have fish knives, EVERY SINGLE VOTER who lives in flyover country voted Trump?

Or do you accept that in the English language, when we use a term in the general way we talk about "men" and "women", there has never been the assumption that every single member of the group is included in the group term?

"Perhaps I should I teach my daughters - cross the street if you see a man and you are alone because he might be a rapist following you ?"

You won't need to teach them. They'll learn for themselves in good time, once they've had experience of what it is to be a pubescent girl or woman alone on the street.

How very fucking dare you growapear I went thundering out of a friend's flat upon hearing a woman's scream and helped her see off the man assaulting her. I don't fight and have little to no training in this area so I was shitting myself the whole way through, so don't you make assumptions on what I will or won't do to tackle male violence. You really are an unpleasant specimen.

What about reducing and stopping the violence from happening to begin with?

Great idea - it's 2017 and to think that all the slaughter especially of the last century could have been solved by reading Andrea Dworkin et al. What's the big idea ?

You seem to have a fatalistic attitude that male violence will inevitably happen, and the only thing you can do is arrest and punish men afterwards. Or, go to war to stop men from other countries being able to do violence here. What about reducing and stopping the violence from happening to begin with?

Ok so we do live in a patriarchy where men are in control and do everything?

A lot of them are doing a hell of a lot more than you about male violence, mate.

Oh, do tell me more about the military, it's so nice to hear such expert opinions on it.

Ok so we do live in a patriarchy where men are in control and do everything?

Sorry Bert your name was first in my head. No specific offence intended.

The military is not an example of men reducing male violence against women, it's an example of how male violence is a multi billion pound industry.

The military is a perfect example of what men do to combat violence from other men - violence that of course would affect women as well, I think this is blatantly obvious.

If you are asking what men do with regard to specific male on female violence in society - well again, they arrest them, they forcibly incarcerate them. Are all men who are in jail for violence against women there and because a woman put them there and stops them getting out ? I know a few prison officers and i have the utmost respect for the extremely difficult and dangerous job they do and I always think of these men when i read on here that men basically do fuck all to end male violence and thank god for e.g. poster Bertrand Russell whom is really taking it to them.

I did have a snigger at the thought of the army patrolling our streets stopping men beating people up.
Strange ideas on this thread now

The military is not an example of men reducing male violence against women, it's an example of how male violence is a multi billion pound industry.