Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

Mollie You could almost hear the steel firedoors clanging down in their minds, shutting off any discussion.

Yes, exactly. Younger sibling said to me a while ago: "So, you know how it's sexist if we say certain clothes/interests/jobs are for men or women?... what about transpeople?" (or similar.)
I though, yey, peak trans reached for another person. But weirdly the next time we spoke the doors had clanged shut and apparently trans was all ok and no can't explain why. This is someone who is intelligent and thoughtful and is normally interested in opposing views and picking out the truth, rather than tribal politics.

It's bizarre - definitely comes across as some kind of brainwashing. In fact I think the comparison to religion is interesting... but for some reason we're allowed to disagree with religion. I don't agree with Islam, for example, but I don't want Muslims to be discriminated against/attacked/deported! And I'll be respectful to their beliefs to a degree, but it's not ok if they impose their beliefs and start insisting I live by Shariah law...
There's a difference between Islamophobia and simply not being a Muslim, but no such difference (according to trans activists) between transphobia and simply not agreeing with that belief system.

The transman seemed very attention-seeking (I don't use that word lightly, either). Very "We're messing with their ideas of gender - yey!" as if that was an end in itself, rather than a coherant rights movement.

There's clearly a lot of money going into the pro-trans side of this whole thing. In a horrifying way, it's actually fascinating to watch it unfold, like a cult. Are any psychologists out there quietly studying this from the sidelines, I wonder?

Also collateral damage = the 80% of potential desisters. Transactivists don't care if many children are inappropriately transitioned, as long as the other 20% who would persist anyway get their treatment.

Like that transman, I think she'd see them as irrelevant, Runner. And detransitioners as acceptable collateral damage.

I think we're in for a decade of this stuff until society in general wakes up as if from a dream and says "what have we done?"

The court cases are going to be heartbreaking once it becomes possible to rigorously examine what's been going on.

What a twat that priest was really. I wonder how she would defend her position if she was in conversation with the parents of the children who had desisted?

Yes Seek - same, same, same. It's presented in the guise of being forward-thinking and open-minded (oh, the irony!) and there's an element of zeal in their outlook that makes me think of some sort of religious conversion. In fact, the whole thing with its 'don't look too hard at the science, don't question the doctrine' is a bit religious-cultish. The threat of lives sacrificed through suicide feeds in to this too, I think.

I think what the priest was saying was that if parents don't support their child's trans "journey", they could lose them - either they will move away or they will kill themselves.

Way to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Did I hear blonde bob woman imply that parents who did not align with gender affirmative practices were at risk of having their children removed by the State? That's what it sounded to me - a veiled threat - bit I'll admit I was so I may have read more into her statements on banning "conversion therapy".

The transman was saying that they feel responsible for children in their community, which I found scary and angering. These are other people's children that they're talking about. Their parents know them best, not some arguably mentally ill adults who've never met them

I watched this this afternoon and thought it was well done although it lacked much corroborating evidence on the claims of both sides of the arguement. I suppose this could be due to time constraints but it does leave it feeling like "opinions" rather than anything based in fact.

The transagenda lot all seemed creepy and hysterically illogical to me but perhaps I am biased because I think that of the whole movement. It would be interesting to hear the opinions of people who do not have a pony in the race and know nothing about the issues.

Lou's story was heartbreaking, I hope she has people around her loving her through this.

Terrible pronoun use in my post above - the 'you' is 'them'

Yes, so did I Mollie. Like, all those times you've come home and recounted the arguments you've had at school when you've told the boys, to their guffaws, that women can't rape, that 'feminazis' shouldn't be worrying more about all the domestic abuse women apparently do... and I've been so proud, and thought 'raised that one right' - and then they tell me that yeah, ok, it's not nice to say 'cunt scum' but that's just extremists and mostly we should just be kind because you really can be in the wrong body. And if, actually, you can't but you feel like you are, that's valid too. GRr.

That's reassuring to know - thanks all! I felt a bit shaken by it last night. You could almost hear the steel firedoors clanging down in their minds, shutting off any discussion. I get that they feel they 'own' this issue as it's their generation, and they have friends going through it, but the hostility to a different perspective was disturbing. (And the trashing of what they see as my 'brand' of feminism too, but I guess that's a different subject )

I have the same with my 22 year olds.

OddMollie, my teenage daughters are much the same. Despite both being ardent feminists who will argue vehemently and thoughtfully on all other aspects of feminism. They both got really cross with me the other day about my thoughts on trans, and even said I was being 'misandrist'! It is upsetting, isn't it?

They really don't like anyone who challenges their narrative. You'd be forgiven for thinking the ideology in question was really flimsy, unscientific and illogical when of course nothing could be farther from the truth

Extreme abuse when discussing her situation online including death threats, according to the narrator.

OddMollie - don't despair. I was exactly like that with my mum at the age of 16. At the age of 27, I now completely agree with her - but I had to come to that conclusion myself after realising for myself what exactly disadvantages women vs. men.

Thanks for that perspective Venus - helps to be reminded that seeing things in black and white is a bit of a developmental stage, though that in itself is interesting given the age of many of the kids caught up in trans issues. bloodybridget, I was thinking the same thing this morning, and wondering what perspective we'll have on this in another generation.

That New Statesman article is excellent - thanks for the link Cherylene

The woman who regretted her surgery, she's anonymous because the trans activists want to physically harm her, is that right?

Yes, hopefully this leads to more shows, and ultimately more balanced education on the issue.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2017/01/transgender-kids-why-doctors-are-right-be-cautious-about-childhood

I've contacted the BBC too.

I tweeted @BBCThisWorld to say thanks.

I only hope this isn't a one-off.

I actually called the BBC to congratulate and thank them for running the programme. One glance at reddit shows many people (predictably) complained so I wanted to even it up a little. The lady on the phone was really helpful and seemed interested. I went on a bit of a rant and I could hear her tapping away at the speed of light. I do think that they've done a good job initially to try and turn the tide a little. I really hope this encourages people both as individuals and organisations to critically examine the trans ideology and who it benefits.