Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

I have been reading reviews on it

This is good. And encouraging

nymag.com/scienceofus/2017/01/you-should-watch-the-bbcs-kenneth-zucker-documentary.html?mid=twitter-share-scienceofus

As that minority are clearly narcissists, I imagine that the amount of collateral damage they would find acceptable is quite high.

Fish you are a wise and loving mother. I think many of us started off with very different opinions to those we hold now. I used to believe that people working in child MH would be cautious and risk averse. I used to think that transwomen were all sex dysphoric gay men who had all had the surgery. Now I know better on both counts.

There is nothing to feel embarrassed about fish it is part of the human experience to have our minds changed as new evidence comes to light or as situations change.

Puberty blockers are not without harms, hormone therapy has definite harms attached and surgery would be an irreversible harm should that young person later desist, as the majority do. So, my question for the people who wish to push these treatments onto children is this: How many children is an acceptable number to be harmed unnecessarily for the minority to feel ok? Can we agree on a number of children/young people who's lives and bodies must suffer irreparable harm for no reason in order to satisfy a minority?

Fish
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you and your family

Don't feel embarrassed. The current trend sounds very much like the compassionate route if you don't apply any critical thinking to it. In all honesty, if this was a couple of years ago and I had had a child who was gender disphoric, I have no doubt I would have travelled along the "transing" route.

You are very brave and doing your best under very difficult circumstances.

Thanks venus

I feel the need to redeem myself a bit, when transgender children started becoming more mainstream I was defending the process they go through and talking a lot about how difficult it is to even get offered blockers.

Now the whole thing has changed and I feel pretty embarrassed about some of the things I was defending, the last 18 months especially have been a real eye opener for me.

What Venus said. Thank you for sticking around and sharing your experience with us, Fish.

Fish, your posts are so valuable here. You more than anyone have made me think about the awful position parents with children who may have gender dysphoria are in, when my first inclination was to be scathing and critical. Much more than all the agenda driven histrionics like that idiot in the huff post.

It takes a lot to break away from the narrative you are fed by every professional you come into contact with the minute you seek any help.

I notice a huge difference in when we started down this route and now.

Now people are getting in 2 appointments what it took us 2 years to get 5 or 6 years ago.

I was called abusive on mermaids for not allowing my child blockers. Having read a lot of information I wanted my child to go through puberty first and then make the decision on where they want to be. It will make things slightly harder if my child continues down this route, but also my child stands a good chance of not going down this route if they experience puberty and mature in the body they were born into.

The route we are taking is definitely not the route they recommend though. They see it a bit like taking anti depressants or painkillers. Somethings wrong, pop a pill and it's fixed. That's a new attitude as well though. It definitely wasn't like that when we started this.

Parents want to be able to rely on medical professionals to have their children's best interests at heart, but they can't if everyone involved is pushing transition.

It's terrifying that parents who are trying to get help for their children are not able to access that help unless the child is transitioning. And transactivists fight to get clinics closed down if they don't follow the orthodoxy. It's insane. The transman on the programme really struck me as being not quite right in the head and that person was instrumental in getting dr Zucker fired apparently.

I don't believe the majority of parents with gender questioning kids are abusive (although I've noticed a lot of abused kids tend to be gender questioning) but I do think a lot are wrong in promoting the 'born this way' narrative and allowing puberty blockers. Though I can see that you're in an impossible situation as that narrative and treatment path is mainstream.

Fishinwet - I certainly don't think that parents who are caught up in this are abusive. The ideology behind it is certainly becoming more and more abusive but I don't for one second think that the majority of parents, fearing for their child's life, are doing anything other than trying their best to support and protect their children with the advise that is given.

I say most because I do think that the unquestioning nature of the 'trans child' dogma leaves it wide open for those adults suffering with something like Munchhausen by proxy or some other mental health condition, to latch onto and use their child for attention. However, I think these will be the exception rather than the rule and most parents will just be desperately trying to find help for their child - but help that leads them down a rabbit hole.

"I can see why people who have children who are self harming or suicidal do go down that route, because it's the only way to access counseling."

This is terrifying.

Gender dysphoric does not equal transgender.

I'm hoping with everything I have that this is the case.

I know I've spoken to a few people on here before about my experiences of having a transgender child.

I know a lot of people think that the parents of these children are abusive, I can see why really, but they are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

The thing is that when you go for help because your child feels this way you only get a few counselling sessions and then you have to make a choice. You go for the 'cure' which is blockers, hormones and surgery. Or you get dropped.

Since I decided not to go down that route for my child we have been signed off from the mental health team and from the clinic and receive no help at all.

I can see why people who have children who are self harming or suicidal do go down that route, because it's the only way to access counselling.

Then you have the added pressures of 'support' groups (mermaids) also telling you that your child will harm or kill themselves if you don't go down that route too.

The programme was really well balanced and it was good to see something out there that was more neutral.

Hopefully this will be the start of more balanced media regarding transgender children and will give parents something to think about if their child experiences these feelings so they don't listen to the self proclaimed experts who seem to have an agenda.

Trans activists are encouraging people to demand an apology from the BBC. If someone wants to express their appreciation instead, the link is here.

If that huff post article is genuine, the theme of "family" and protecting them at all costs is very cult-like.

I really wish the Beeb had the balls to have a proper studio debate after the programme.

Indeed.

From the link:
I won’t go into the arguments here. In my opinion there was no balance to it

I would good money to see a trans-activist enter into ANY factual argument that didn't almost immediately involve the threat of suicide, blocking, cries of trans-phobia, bigot and death threats. Haven't seen it yet.

But without gender dysphoria, people would be a lot less sympathetic. The trans movement needs gender dysphoria so they can convince people how unbearable it is for trans people, particularly children not to transition.

Itsall - that article on two-spirit people is fascinating, and very much tallies with what an anthropologist friend of mine told me: that third genders tend to occur in societies with very rigid gender roles (in the social scientist's sense of "gender" meaning socially determined/sanction role/occupation deemed appropriate for someone of that biological sex).

. It was awful, I won’t go into the arguments here
From the huffpost article 😳