Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

I think it's massively awful that they are trying to perpetuate an idea that children with a mental health condition including autism etc are so much worse and they don't want to be associated with it, than children with a gender identity problem because of course they were just born into the wrong sex and that's perfectly normal. Though they're happy to claim a serious medical condition when they're expecting the NHS to provide.

Wow, this documentary has cheered me up! It was well balanced and everybody in it was given a proper chance to speak.

It's good that it was on the BBC as it gives a kind of 'official permission' to use our critical faculties and ask questions, rather than having to STFU and toe the line. It's a high profile programme on a mainstream channel and a lot of people will have watched who haven't really thought much about the implications of the transactivist agenda. I hope it'll start a lot of conversations.

From the nymag article:
“Transgender activists are now campaigning to stop gender dysphori[c] children being considered a medical or psychiatric problem,” notes Conroy at one point. Then he quotes Hershel Russell, one of the activists I interviewed in my piece who helped get Zucker’s clinic shut down: “It’s not about mental health, so why does it belong in a mental-health institution?” says Russell. “This is one of the things we’re hearing more and more emphatically from families who have gender-diverse kids — ‘We don’t want mental-health assistance … We don’t want to see the psychologist, we don’t want to see the psychiatrist.’”

This terrifies me and makes me so angry. I've read about so many cases of gender dysphoria in children correlating with self-harm, eating disorders, depression, anxiety, autism, sexual abuse ... so many distressed children will be let down if there is nothing built into the process for exploring and dealing with other mental and emotional issues. Transactivists bombard and blackmail us with dodgy suicide and self harm rates at the same time as campaigning to remove any psychological help from the process of transing children.

HOW FUCKING DARE THEY

God. Hadn't thought about it in those terms re the puberty blockers. OMG. How the fuck can this shit be allowed to happen? It's blatant child abuse.

I am very interesting in the funding for all this. There has to be an element of 'follow the money' here. Does anyone know/have a starting point?

The obsession with blockers is because middle aged transitioners (especially males who have bigger skeletons and jaws that cannot be altered through hormones and easily accessible surgery) wish they could go back and avoid puberty so they think its marvellous that children now can do so. It's intensely creepy.

Just remembered one thing that particularly stuck out was the woman saying in a very threatening way that parents who wouldn't support medical transition should have their children removed. Can't see that happening in the UK, at least at present, but it looks as if it might be possible in North America.

You're right, today. It is all very cultish and, no, it's not scientific. It's all based on ideology. The ones trying to practice in a scientific way, Dr Zucker and his team, have been driven out by the TRAs with their dangerous, irresponsible fanaticism. However, there's hope, from this documentary, at the very balanced judgement given in a recent court case, and in the more than 500 clinicians and academics who signed a petition against Dr Zucker's firing. There are still doctors who are dedicated to medical ethics and the scientific method. We have to hope that research data will eventually prevail. In the meantime there are going to be fuck only knows how many thousands of permanently scarred detransitioners like that poor, poor young woman. She will haunt me for a long time.

Yes there is a fixation on children's bodies. Like that man who transitioned to being a six-year-old girl - entirely for sexual gratification.

There is certainly a paedophilic element in trying to preserve teenagers/young adults in their prepubescent state using drugs.

It's awful. Anyone who colludes in censoring its critics is enabling child abuse on a grand scale. Take that on board, media sites.

Something I find very fucked up and creepy about the transing of children by trans adults is their enthusiasm for something very many of them refuse for themselves; surgery.

Because of the passing thing plus the born that way thing and all the twisted crap about "being authentic", these adults are very keen on children's bodies being mutilated. But the majority of them don't do anything so extreme to their own bodies. It is very predatory.

I have been deleted before on MN for describing surgery as mutilating. I would like to highlight here that I do not use the word lightly, but rather as it is used in FGM - reasonable people do not shy away from calling FGM out for what it is and I think it would be very hypocritical to be coy about what GRS does to the human body.

Another one saying thank you FishInAWetSuitAndFlippers for sharing your personal experience. I think it is appalling that support is being denied to you and your child due to a political agenda. Plus the insisting about toilets usage and so on strikes me as very invasive and self-righteous. Wishing you and your family all the best x

I think it is all rather cultish. Science does not matter, it's how you feel and what you believe to be true, rather than anything based on fact or logic .

But you would have atheists foaming at the mouth if they were being forced to accept religious doctrine or 'faith' as fact, but we are being told to swallow this ideology without question, or be a bigot

The therapist was sooo creepy. And anyone who could speak in such a manner about what is a very complex issue (40% of trans children are on the ASD, an unknown number have been sexually abused) as if it was just some jolly dress up game doesn't have any of the normal professional gravitas in place. He was like an actor with his florid language and over the top gestures. Grotesque.

It seemed like a very religious sentiment to me. Gender identity is a soul

Oh gosh. The therapist from the documentary saying that "deep down in side where the music plays" was wonderful because it was "so precise" keeps replaying in my head.

I think some people have no notion of "subjective".

Because being trans is totally subjective, unquantifiable and varies from person to person meaningless narcissism

Don't forget as well that of the 20% who don't desist, lots will be on blockers so may have desisted themselves also. So the natural rate of desistence could be higher.

Also before I am called transphopbic for that 17.09 post, can anyone tell me how it is possible to be trans without suffering sex dysphoria? If you are not 'trapped in the wrong body' so to speak, what exactly are you transitioning to? Only thing left is dress sense and such, which is just personal opinion.

Truscum - those who show us up as the pervs we are. Those who do actually suffer instead of pretending to like we do. Those who have empathy with women instead of expecting them to be fuckholes. Those who we are latching onto in an attempt to get our own way. Those who do actually deserve sympathy and such, and truly do feel 'trapped in the wrong body' rather than having a fetish.

And so on...

Yes you can't get a tattoo until you are 18 because you might regret it but Susie Green took her 17 year old son abroad for castration and teens are taking hormone drugs willy nilly. It's a fucking scandal and in 20 years time will be looked back as a bigger scandal than Saville or Rotherham. But for now the lefties and libfems are supporting the abuse of children.

So is it literally "true scum" then? The extremist TRAs are such a charming bunch.

Truscum would be 'old school transsexuals'. Those who actually do get surgery and such and tend to agree sex dysphoria is an essential part of being transgender. Those who are transgender but horrified with the recent claims of 'lesbians should shag male people or they are bigoted' and so on...

'Truscum are people who think dysphoria is an essential component of being trans and anyone who doesn't experience it is fake, “appropriating transness”, a “transtrender”, etc. They very often exclude non-binary and agender people as well.'

IMO a large majority of those who push for child transitions are the narcissistic type. Same as a large percentage of TAs are the narcissistic type.

Basically anyone who shouts on about how female areas should be a free for all is a dick. Those with dysphoria and such have been using female areas for years and don't draw attention to themselves as they just want to get on with their lives as comfortably as possible after a hell of a journey to get to that stage. ONLY after the push for obvious males to be included, cotton ceiling, lady-dick, etc etc has any of this been a problem.

I do not agree with medical intervention for preteens. What other areas of life do the under 16s get to 'make the choice' about whats best for them, so to speak? What would those thinking its fine to delay puberty (and in turn, guarantee transition as an adult, as the desist rate is 0% once blockers are started) make of allowing kids to make their own choices in other medical settings...or infact just other areas of life, since the child knows best and all. Don't want to go to school? Oh fine, you know better. Fancy a boob job at 8 years old, great go right ahead! And so on. Its just fucking crazy.

The 80% grow out of it figure is truly frightening. But the worst part is how some just want to dismiss those people as collateral damage. As I understand, the 80% who 'grow out of it' also will most likely simply be gay adults. When looking at it like that, I cannot see this push for child transitions as anything other than gay conversion therapy and I am perplexed at the support from Stonewall and such.

What's the etymology of "truscum"? I never did dare google it.

I've not yet watched the documentary but feel the same as the opinions on this thread.

Being relatively new to this issue, can anyone point me to some reading materials? In particular on the issue of trans and/vs. feminism.

Sorry, what a mash up! I really must be ill and will lay off the posting until I am back thinking at my proper speed. I meant the bit at the end: that it's a minority but a very large one.

I would say that it's a majority rather than a minority, Venus. I work it out thusly:

Only 20% transwomen have, or plan to have, SRS. I'd imagine they're the gay men of my understanding, the old-fashioned transsexuals. As 27% report themselves attracted to men only, and some people may be unable to undergo the surgery, let's say there's a third who are the much-reviled truscum. And two thirds who aren't.

A third, roughly are bisexual, and another third are exclusively attracted to women. I think I'd be safe to say that very few of the het guys have had SRS and that it's as rare as hen's teeth for anyone in that last third to have had the op.

Any person who has a penis and is sexually interested to women is a heterosexual man. Any male who can keep a straight face while putting clothes over his dick, and demanding that the world agree he's a woman is, to my mind, unavoidably narcissistic. There's also the issue that lesbian communities are reporting being overwhelmed by a kind of trans invasion, with pushy TRA types causing the destruction of lesbian space: festivals, bars, meetings. This behaviour is narcissistic to the max.

So I reckon it's between 30-40%, at the least. The trans umbrella has grown so wide that in terms of male transgenders it now covers a huge number of narcissistic people whose motivation for transition is primarily sexual.

Sorry, very rambling, I'm in bed ill. What I'm saying is that I agree it's a minority but think it's a big one, maybe 40%.