Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

I haven't seen the statement or seen the thread Prawn I'll go look now.

I am horrified by the recent statement by the RCGP on the matter. It's another thread on Feminism Chat. My opinion will count for little, but I've been wondering if they might be interested by your perspective, Fish. Perhaps if you read it you could send them some feedback on what life as you and your child are having to navigate it is like?

CoolJazz PencilsInSpace's post yesterday at 15.52 has a link to a long article about Dr Zucker which covers the case of the boy you're talking about. It puts a different perspective on it from the one you've quoted.

I think if my child were presenting with GID I would want therapy that explored over time, why that was, what that meant to them, how best they could live happily, and how others could work to accept their non-conformity. I'd be hoping for an outcome where my child, felt accepted and at ease in the way they wanted to live, without ultimately feeling they needed to medically alter their healthy body.

You wouldn't get this. You would get the standard minimum amount of NHS counselling in your area, usually between 6 and 12 hours. You would get put onto the waiting list for the clinic. You would then get a few sessions there and have to make a choice whether to get blockers for your child and carry on with some counselling or get completely dropped with no help.

That's the reality of what we are faced with.

"....Meanwhile, I am also tired of transactivists on twitter telling lesbians that they are self-hating trans men."
Seen that too. There is just going to be animosity when you have former lesbians who via trans then get to be 'normal' straight men (thinking Chaz Bono and the whole heterosexual dynamic quotes). Or when straight folk trans and then try and insert themselves into the gay community (okay, unintended double entendre, but its does happen). The LGB just doesn't FIT with the T (despite gay orgs needing a new reason for existing now the gay marriage fight has been mostly won, and T being the sexy new civil rights topic.).

Reading the linked article, the issue for me is that we are being forced to the position where having a gender identity is required to be seen to be innate and unchangeable for even very young kids. Where the line becomes about not questioning or exploring gender and identity, or treating gender dysphoria, but just affirming gender identity and prepping kids for transition. But underlying it all is this belief in gender identity, that is the scary old religion here appearing in the new trans clothes.

I'm quite new to all this and I've mostly been following from a distance but I thought it was a balanced programme. I found this review to be good.

abutterflysdiary.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/transgender-kids-who-knows-best-thoughts-on-bbc2s-this-world-programme/

It's not a problem I personally face and hopefully I never will, it must be tough for parents who are told their kid will commit suicide if they don't support him/her. Talk about emotional abuse!

Juno Dawson tweeted:

"In a referendum, the UK would vote for mandatory beer taps in homes. Doesn't mean government would do it or that it would be good for us."

So she thinks children should decide their gender but adults can't be trusted...

This rubbish about "conversion therapy" and evil doctors who try to "cure" trans kids makes me so cross. Nobody gives a shit about the 80% who are being "cured" of being gay or gender nonconforming.

Meanwhile, I am also tired of transactivists on twitter telling lesbians that they are self-hating trans men.

Ain't that the truth venus 😔

Oh I'm sure some gender quack can now put them on the right path to glorious transition and a life of uncomplicated joy and acceptance.

Just read the article Pencil. VERY long! It does seem that dr Zucker was treated very badly, and the children who were/would have been helped in the clinic now won't be, unfortunately.

Oh yes, it is a good article. I read it the other day. But didn't read the comments, so have just googled Lupron

Do the transactivists have any concerns about the long term use of hormones?

That's interesting, Albadross. More than 500 clinicians working in the same field have signed a petition in protest at what has been done to Dr Zucker (and, by extension, his patients) so he is well respected by his peers.

My interpretation is not that Dr Zucker was trying to "cure" the children he counselled but was responsibly reflecting the truth that 80% of untreated gender dysphoric children will spontaneously resolve their discomfort. He explicitly stated that those who persisted should receive medical treatment.

I agree with ChocChoc that Dr Zucker was the kind of therapist I would want. He came over immeasurably better than the bald counsellor who seemed the worst sort of trendy zeitgeist surfer.

Yes, ageingrunner. There's a very long but very good article here about what went on. It makes a change to see proper investigative journalism these days.

Some of the comments below this article suggest that it doesn't matter that Zucker was totally set up because he was wrong anyway

One of the comments suggested googling 'Lupron petition' which proved educational (Lupron is one of the drugs used as a puberty blocker).

Also, the entire rest of the trans community dont necessarily have any expert knowledge of child development.

It's my understanding that dr Zucker was smeared by some in the trans community which lead to his clinic being shut, but the allegations against him have since been withdrawn.

Sure most of the "entire rest of the trans community" wasn't commenting or involved?

Someone I know who is a doctor said it made her furious because a tiny handful of people from a discredited clinic (who were trying to "cure" the children) got to say as much as the entire rest of the trans community.

Oops sorry. Was 'catching up' on the wrong page entirely.

I know a lot of people think that the parents of these children are abusive, I can see why really, but they are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

It doesn't seem abusive to me Fish. I can see exactly how it could feel like meeting a child's needs, especially in the context of the new TSA-influenced medical orthodoxy.

I had terrible trouble deciding what to do about the MMR (ASC already suspected in my eldest by the time that blew up).