Transgender Documentary on BBC2 Thursday 2100 "Transgender Kids: Who Knows best?"

Ailynn thank you for your very sensitive post on Fri 27-Jan-17 12:11:52.

Poppyred85 "I genuinely don't know what the solution is for trans women." I don't either but I do know I felt a lot more sympathetic and on the side of trans women before people started saying that there was no difference, trans women are women, full stop, kind of argument! That helped to stop me in my tracks! Plus while I am much happier for trans girls and women who have been through some sort of assessment etc and adults who are on some programme of transitioning - for people who just identify one day, I feel a lot less sympathetic.

"However, it does not sit well with me then that transwomen such as Ailynn may face male violence if using "male" changing rooms."

I totally agree. I don't want to see anyone vulnerable to attack.

Ciera Taylor: 'I'm happy and proud to be trans' does seem to be someone who would have been an 'old fashioned transexual' as opposed to a new trans person.

CharlieSierra, yes I read the bit by Gwen. Gwen doesn't come across the same to me as Ciera.

When Gwen is speaking about a woman to me it is not speaking of what a woman is, Gwen is speaking of a person in general. A woman has a female body and that body has certain elements that both bring joy and sorrow but most of all are unique to our sex.

We will all be limited by our bodies.

I think the positives of being a woman are really just biological. Most of the negatives are actually not innate but the things society puts onto women.

There was a young woman on tumblr who has detransitioned who was saying she found it easier to get a prescription for testosterone at the age of 15 than she had to get a prescription for one month worth of birth control pills to delay her period because she was going on holiday 😳

I immediately associate the name Cheryl Tweedy with assaulting someone in a nightclub. I think there was a question as to whether it was racially motivated but she wasn't convicted of the racist part. I don't think of that history when I hear/see one of her later names.

Even if you get rid of the paperwork and the 'image', you are still 'you'. What you have done and what has been done to you will affect how you deal with whatever comes your way and you can't get rid of that. It makes you who you are. People spend millions on counselling to try and come to terms with it and learn from it. Some people spend their lives running away from the bit they don't like until in the end they realise it is part of them.

The things I see from young people wanting to transition and the information given them does not seem very grounded to me. I worry that they are being shown the moon, then being given a lifetime of medical crap and living in a situation where they are neither one thing nor the other.

I can't pretend to know anything about Cheryl Tweedy - as far as I am concerned, she is the same face in the same papers with different names from time to time.

Cheryl Tweedy is a good non-trans example of that.

Changing one's name can have the effect of drawing a line, especially if crime was committed under the old name. And the insistence on not "dead-naming" reinforces this.

OldBoots I'm glad things are changing. It was a long time ago that I was at school 😬. And also glad that your daughter didn't get sucked into believing she was trans, that must be a massive relief for you too

But they can draw a line, to a degree. Gabrielle Ludwig got another chance at college basketball at the age of 52. Seems Ludwig wasn't entitled to play sccording to regs but did get another go as a woman. Sex offenders have also avoided jail because there new identy was just too problematic to deal with.

Sometimes she's born in a male body like I was, but our histories do not define us. I refuse to be limited by mine in the same way people do not want their past crimes or disabilities or embarrassments to define who they are today

But our past crimes, disabilities and embarrassments and how we deal with them are we are and what defines us. That is what life is. You can't draw a line and start again. Life is too short. They have a lot to learn

Thanks, Empress. It's a horrible quote and I'm sad to see the BBC pandering to this gobbledygook.

Datun They also dropped into the article the price of transition on the NHS, which will get outraged of Tunbridge Wells pinging off emails 10 to the dozen.

I'm not "outrgaed of Tunbridge Wells" but it seems astonishing and awful if the NHS is paying for transitions (cosmetic surgery fgs!) whilst other stuff isn't funded. Traumatised after abuse - oh dear, no therapy for you, it's been cut. Believe your perfectly healthy body is wrong and you should look like the opposite sex - sure, we'll fund hormones (that may well harm you) and surgery. WTF?

Does anyone know how many "transition" operations are actually performed? I was previously under the impression it was quite hard to get...

Sorry, I should have said. Thanks Empress.

Here we go Prawn. It's from Gwen & Becky's advice page.

About halfway down.

Sorry, Charlie, where's that quote from? I've gone back 3 pages and checked OP but I can't find it.

*have done

The DM done a trans critical piece today, outraged over expectant mothers being called into people.

They also dropped into the article the price of transition on the NHS, which will get outraged of Tunbridge Wells pinging off emails 10 to the dozen.

What is being "a woman" beyond cosmetic things like body shape, make-up and high heels?
"After spending time on both sides of the 'gender line', I can confidently say that there is really no quality that, in a vacuum, makes a person a man or a woman.
"A woman to me is a culmination of her experiences, the people in her life, the choices she makes, everything that has led her to where she is today
"Sometimes she's born in a male body like I was, but our histories do not define us. I refuse to be limited by mine in the same way people do not want their past crimes or disabilities or embarrassments to define who they are today

So a woman's lived experience has no meaning. Any experience becomes a woman's if the person living it self defines as a woman. We are gone.

So the BBC is running an agony aunt column for trans now. How dare they? How dare Gwen and Becky give advice to someone about their 8 yr old trans sister? I am so angry. And so upset that BBC, after showing such an excellent documentary, has gone back to kowtowing to trans

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38761068

And another piece about a young transwoman Gwen. Does this fall under news? Does the BBC do lots of articles on someones politics/feelings/opinion? That's two young trans voices in 3 days.

I do feel for these 2 young people and i probably wouldn't have a problem with them being lumped in with females and i truly hope they are happy and safe - then i think of the sports issue and other more concerning ones. Why did TAs have to start bullying and demanding everything - and some. I don't want these young kids to pay the price but i hate being manipulated and bullied into staying quiet and having to accept what to me is basically a delusional ideology. I already made my mind up about God and Jesus - trans ideology just seems more of the same dogma.

And i wonder if the BBC will let transwomen like late transitioning fetishists on Twitter demanding access to female areas - have an equal voice.

agingrunner "I can see why lesbian teenagers are keen to become transmen and identify out of the lesbian category, if schools are anything like they were in my day (long ago). The use of "lesbian" as an insult for female PE teachers seems fairly common. It must be awful to hear that if you actually are a lesbian teenager. The word is often thrown around as an insult ime"

As the mother of a teenage lesbian I am thankful to say that (at her school at least) things have changed. DD and her ex-girlfriend did have some comments from other teens suggesting that maybe they were trans rather than gay but once they said that they weren't then that stopped and DD's general school (and outside school) experience has been supportive.

rose

I've set to record that on BBC1 tonight at 7:30. Although the blurb doesn't mention this story?

I find it very concerning that so many youngsters are coming out as trans. If gender dysphoria is so prevalent why isn't the medical world trying to find out why? Surely no scientists are really buying the 'Born in the wrong body' narrative? What is the evidence?

And if youngsters are transitioning for social reasons why are we changing laws and language to accommodate it?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-38638487

"Ciera Taylor was 14 when she told her parents she was born in the wrong body and wanted to live as a girl. Now aged 16, she tells BBC News how her family and schoolfriends have coped with her momentous decision."

I can see why lesbian teenagers are keen to become transmen and identify out of the lesbian category, if schools are anything like they were in my day (long ago). The use of "lesbian" as an insult for female PE teachers seems fairly common. It must be awful to hear that if you actually are a lesbian teenager. The word is often thrown around as an insult ime

Does anyone else remember this?

We had two gym teachers who were both lesbians. and yes we were in that group who had to run through a communal shower whilst being supervised.

we all knew it, it was a little but, hand on heart, had those teachers been male, it would've felt much worse, and entirely different.

Perhaps it's to do with power, or domination, expectation? I don't really know, all I can say is in a situation where there was someone who may have been viewing me from an 'aesthetic' point of view the fact that they were women just wasn't as bad.