Stop airlines charging women extra for travelling with expressed milk

I think the whole petition is rendered moot by using the example of the woman who had to dump 14L of milk. Some of that milk was weeks old and had been transported through hotels, airports etc. The airport that that woman's baby a favour by ensuring that the baby did not drink that bacterial soup breast milk.

I had SMP, couldn't afford to take all of it and had to express in work. A full-time, permanent job doesn't automatically fix all these problems.

This is true - but (assuming UK) your job was required to give you a space to do that expressing, and facilities to safely store the milk. I was pointing out to the OP, that as her own employer, she was responsible for her own expressing/storage facilities.

As a freelancer, I, too was back at my desk within a couple of weeks each time (I love my job - I wasn't forced back) - but freelance is my choice. I could go and take a permanent job, and I would have had the maternity leave etc. We do have to take responsibility for our choices in these cases.

I had SMP, couldn't afford to take all of it and had to express in work. A full-time, permanent job doesn't automatically fix all these problems.

I do not understand. You stay away for so long from your baby, that while away you fill up so many bottles with breastmilk, and this breastmilk is for when you leave your baby again (so soon and again for so long) that you cannot build up the milk when back home. You absolutely must use the time away to build up a milk reserve for the next time away?

I'm the absolute past mistress of storing/freezing milk and had various systems. I followed the nicu guidance

6 hours out at room temp (no more than 20 degrees)
6 days in the fridge
6 months in the freezer

None of mine ever had a hint of d&v so I'm comfortable with that regime - however, it is entirely predicated on having optimal storage facilities that I have control of (e.g. my own fridge with clear temperature controls and temp display) i.e. not randomly assuming that milk will definitely freeze on an aircraft

Also, if you're away, how do you even freeze freezer packs? Prrsumably guving them to the hotel but most hotels aren't very keen to store or freeze guests' food/utensils as the vast majority have very strict food hygiene protocols for what is taken in and out of their commercial fridge/freezers

Plus the mini bar fridge in the hotel room doesn't reliably chill down to the same level
as a domestic fridge so notguarabteed that the milk is being stored correctly

Honestly, the whole thing is bogging and so risky

How do you keep these bottles at a safe temperature when travelling?

*and that freshly expressed milk (ideally used within 72 hours) should be refrigerated.

geek the Australian Breastfeeding Association says that freshly expressed milk should be used within 72 hours, not 8 days. I accept that that differs from the kellymom site although that also says that use within 72 hours is ideal. Is there a UK site?

But the main issue is whether frozen milk can be kept frozen throughout the flight process and then safely placed in the home freezer. If not, and it defrosts on the way it needs to be defrosted fully in the fridge and used within 24 hours. Which is a lot of milk for a baby to drink in a day.

I don't understand what kellymom means by the statement that it's ok if there's some ice crystals as when I've defrosted breast milk there's a mixture of still frozen, icy bits and liquid milk until it's fully defrosted. That's what happens when solids melt, a mixture of ice crystals and liquid before it completely becomes liquid.

You're very confident that frozen milk could remain frozen over the duration of a flight and that's fine but not everyone shares your confidence that milk could go from the freezer in the hotel to the freezer at home safely, without defrosting on the way.

It can be safely stored in a cool box/bag at up to 15 deg C for up to 24 hours.

15 degrees is the cold end of room temperature. You'd use breastmilk that had been sat on the side in a cold-ish kitchen for 24 hours?

I'm really confused. If you follow the links on the page you posted originally then it says:

"Formula, breast milk and juice in quantities greater than 3.4 ounces or 100 milliliters are allowed in carry-on baggage and do not need to fit within a quart-sized bag. Separate formula, breast milk and juice from other liquids, gels and aerosols limited to 3.4 ounces. You do not need to travel with your child to bring breast milk.

Ice packs, freezer packs, frozen gel packs and other accessories required to cool formula, breast milk and juice are allowed in carry-on. If these accesories are partially frozen or slushy, they are subject to the same screening as described above. You may also bring gel or liquid-filled teethers, canned, jarred and processed baby food in carry-on baggage. These items may be subject to additional screening."

Where is the problem? Or is it just that you can't fit anything else in your carry on so need to be able to transport more?

I did a lot of milk storage. And transport. My DD had taken over 30 flights by the time she was about three. And I do more for work and because I live in another country.

I'm not saying it's not possible at all. I'm saying it adds to the list of unlikely things that have to happen for this to be an issue. I mean 14 litres of BM in luggage?!? What hotel has room for that in the tiny fridge? Let alone being able to freeze it there. And 14 litres might well not freeze in the hold. That's a lot of liquid. If it does, great, because it will likely stay frozen.

I never had any issue with empty bottles or getting airlines to give me a break as a lactating mother. They were all fine with expressed milk.

I'm with Gobblo and ChocChoc on this.
You are very very wrong to assume the milk would be frozen for most of the journey.

There isn't a hope in hell that the process from checking in to disembarking is a controlled temperature and remotely safe for keeping large quantities of milk properly stored for hours on end.

You'l be checking a bag in at least an hour before you fly. The bag could then be stored at room temperature before being loaded. Or it could go into a metal container which could sit out on the tarmac in 25 degree heat for an hour. And then depending on which part of the hold the container is loaded into, it could be held at nearly freezing, or it could be closer to room temperature.

Then when you land, the containers could spend more time on the tarmac in blazing sun or freezing cold, before the bags are loaded onto the carousel.

I can't actually get my head around anyone who would then willingly feed this milk to a baby

Ffs, there's a lot of misinformation on this thread about breastmilk storage. It's not a health hazard to transport expressed milk by plane if you store it correctly, and it's not hard to store it correctly.

Fresh breastmilk can be safely stored in a fridge after pumping for 3-8 days. It can be safely stored in a cool box/bag at up to 15 deg C for up to 24 hours. No problem going from door to door (e.g., hotel fridge to home fridge) flying across the UK, or indeed across Europe, within that timescale.

Frozen breastmilk can be safely stored for 6 months. A good cool box with ice packs can keep anything frozen solid for up to 24 hours. And actually, it doesn't affect the safety of frozen breast milk if it thaws slightly in transit: so long as there are ice crystals in the milk, it remains at freezing temperature and can be safely returned to the freezer without affecting its storage time. No problem going from door to door across most of the world within that timescale.

If an individual personally doesn't feel comfortable transporting expressed milk, that's her decision, but the guidelines and evidence are pretty clear that it's easily possible.

broken the duck is this a phrase I've never heard or a typo? In any case.. I think I like it

It's a sporting phrase. Where a player has had a zero score and finally scores- they have broken the duck- leading to doing something for the first time.

On this whole topic having seen nolongersurprised's post I cannot see why there would be any need to transport old milk back.

I think some of the annoyance comes from the fact that this seems like an issue that can only exist if an amazingly rare set of circumstances happen.

Woman is self employed, decides to work when her child is still BFing, has to travel repeatedly with small breaks, child is exclusively BFing, she can express, baby will take bottles. Then, she has to take large amounts which affect the weight (I'm normally well under and could carry more), airline is sniffy about it (I've found them very helpful), she has a method of keeping these large amounts of milk safe (how?) and uses these (by now refrozen?) quantities of milk safely.

Now I'm all for pressing for change on things that affect women. And not waiting for one change to happen before another. But the wage gap affects millions. And lots of them in poverty, one wage and supporting families.

broken the duck is this a phrase I've never heard or a typo? In any case.. I think I like it.

I exclusively expressed for my my 2 and 4 year olds and part expressed for my 1 year old.

There is only 13 months between the older two so at "peak" production I was expressing 2 litres a day. I did it because it was really important to me that they got breast milk even though the older two were badly tongue tied

It was just easier with the baby to do a mix of expresse breast milk and traditional breast feeding as she wa number 3.

I took empty bottles through in my hand luggage on various ocassions - no problem

I'm a devoted expresser but, honestly, lugging this milk back which could be defrosting etc or you're not sure has frozen properly? Really? Total health hazard.

I would have broken the duck and given formula rather than do that because I would havwralksed that - underneath it all - this wa much more about my need to give breast milk rather than what is in the babies' best interest (is not to receive potentially hazardous milk)

I'm an employment lawyer by trade so - I don't think - a natural discriminator. But this really should not be encouraged for health and safety reasons. I would be concerned if I acted for the airlines that potentially there could be a claim if they were aware that breast milk was being transported in sub-optimal conditions with the clear intent to give it to a baby.

Meanwhile, the lactating mother is not actually breastfeeding her baby - which is best for maintaining supply - while the baby guzzles the litres of milk it was apparently essential to take on the plane

Good point. Presumably before going on the trip the bf mother has to pump furiously to produce enough milk to feed the baby whilst she is away.

Once she is back she will presumably be providing her baby with new, fresh milk direct from her rather than days old frozen/ defrosted/ no idea whether it has been properly stored or not, old expressed milk from a bottle.

So the milk expressed whilst she was away to keep supply up could easily have been discarded at that point.

I think the reason they have it in the US is because they have such terrible maternity provision. They've decided that it's better to have women go back to work but not give flexibility around that so they have to express and travel, than give them the right to accommodations at work so they can continue to breastfeed their young baby.

I prefer the second approach to the first.

That's also why using the case of the woman who needed to dump 14 L of milk isn't a good idea- there's no way that milk, some of which was weeks old, would have been considered safe

Imagine if I came on here, and said that I'd been buying a 6 pinter every day I was on my travels, kept them in the fridge, and was planning to keep them frozen with freezer packs for the journey home in the hold (or my hand luggage), to drink when I got home. I would be called insane. Yet doing this to feed a young baby is apparently a good idea!

This is the major part for me - I just don't think that carrying litres of milk around on airplanes is a good idea.

I think lasswi has no grasp of facts and has a typical tory voter mentality of 'I don't do that/pay for that why would anyone else'

Wow glad you know the voting intentions of all voters.

For the record some of the most selfish people I know are Labour voters.

That's also why using the case of the woman who needed to dump 14 L of milk isn't a good idea- there's no way that milk, some of which was weeks old, would have been considered safe.

The thing is, based on a baby's requirements of around 100ml/kg/day 1L of milk is probably an overestimate for most babies whose only source of nutrition is milk. Bigger babies are usually on some solids and will be ok on less, irrespective e of whether they'd prefer more.

If you're campaigning that, say, 3L needs to be transported, it'd be pretty hard to keep it frozen solid for the duration of a flight and most women wouldn't run the risk of refreezing. So, a 7kg 5 month old baby, for example, needs to get through 4 days' worth (or so) of expressed milk to make it worthwhile, but, from memory, defrosted milk needs to be consumed pretty quickly.

Meanwhile, the lactating mother is not actually breastfeeding her baby - which is best for maintaining supply - while the baby guzzles the litres of milk it was apparently essential to take on the plane.

Have you contacted your local breastfeeding authority to ascertain whether they think it would be safe to refreeze the milk that's gone through the whole airport palaver?

I was trying to understand.
You've accused me of bullying you.
I'm out. Have a good life.

You say upthread All airlines in the U.K. charge extra for hold luggage on domestic flights
So is this just about UK domestic flights?