Do you think men can be feminists?

Do you wear a T-shirt?

Right, ok Lass.

I'm struggling to see what you find so odd about it. Perhaps it will be simpler to say I disagree with your view that men can't be feminists - who are you to determine they can't? It's your opinion , but it's just an opinion.

My own view is that appending the qualifier "as a feminist " when setting out a case risks potentially weakening an argument. Take the case of abortion in NI.

I don't need to state I think that is wrong "because I am a feminist".

"BertrandRussell - I don't need to make a move, Sparrowhawk has to change her post, she was the one asserting none of us were."

How do you show yourself to be a feminist in your daily life then?

You're questioning my morality??? Are you for real

hilbert

Does the label matter to you?

Do you try and live your life / influence other lives to help women overcome issues they face?

Or...as someone who believes that there are issues affecting women that need to be addressed, then I think that "insert opinion / what change you would like to see" here.

If you believe there are issues that overwhelmingly affect women and that need to be addressed, does that make you a feminist?

I know some people on here don't like to be associated with that word - but I would bet some of them still believe there are issues that overwhelmingly affect women that need to be addressed. Does that make you a feminist?

"So you're very keen for men to be able to call themselves something that you consider to make no difference? Odd."

Again, that is called freedom.

Lass respects the rights of others to believe in what they want, even when she thinks it's silly/pointless. I seriously question your morality if you find that odd. It does however explain your behavior on this board regarding people disagreeing with you.

Apart from telling feminists how rude they are of course.

How do you engage with feminism Hilbert, what are your beliefs around it?

"She's perfectly entitled to do it of course Hilbert, it's just that typically people don't argue for and advocate for things they don't agree with."

Indeed, that is something that you Sparrow find completely alien. You often don't even acknowledge what you don't agree with.

Ok...so you think feminism is pointless but you've argued for men to be feminists? So you're very keen for men to be able to call themselves something that you consider to make no difference? Odd.

The essence of freedom and liberty is for non feminists to tell feminists what the attributes of a feminist are?

Not what I said.

Ironic you would get it wrong and then say "Er, no." That's rather rude, wouldn't you say?

"Do you consider yourself to be a feminist Hilbert?" - yes.

I'm really surprised you reckon men can be feminists when you disagree so vehemently with feminism yourself - it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with

I don't don't see why, if it is important to them, and if they believe in the basic human decency aspects I set out, they should not call themselves " feminists" if they want to.

Although I personally feel that for example saying something like "As a feminist I believe the Nordic model is the way forward" is no more convincing than saying "I believe the Nordic model is the way forward...". If anything less so, it should be self evident to any decent person.

The essence of freedom and liberty is for non feminists to tell feminists what the attributes of a feminist are?

Er, no.

and no again.

Do you consider yourself to be a feminist Hilbert?

She's perfectly entitled to do it of course Hilbert, it's just that typically people don't argue for and advocate for things they don't agree with.

Oh i see what you are saying hibert

It was the ' all' word

Apologies i missed that

"it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with."

That would be the essence of freedom and liberty.

The fact that you find that odd, speaks volumes.

Neither lass or drm say they are feminists

Thats all sparrow said

BertrandRussell - I don't need to make a move, Sparrowhawk has to change her post, she was the one asserting none of us were.

Well according to you I can't be even if I wanted to ;)

Absolutely lass

thats why i think these types of thread struggle

You can do 'feminist' things because they are the normal 'right' things to do and not be a feminist

You can do 'christian' things because they are the normal 'right' things to do and not be a christian

Thanks for the feedback Lass. As you know I really care about what you think.

I'm really surprised you reckon men can be feminists when you disagree so vehemently with feminism yourself - it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with.

"Who said any of us are not feminists? Because we argue against you? You keep making these big assumptions that are based on nothing but your own prejudices."

OK. You're a feminist. What is your next move?