Women suffer more from workplace stress than men....

Yetanotherspartacus thanks yes you are absolutely right. V helpful (to me).

The irony is that more and more economic research shows that undervaluing or not even utilizing in the first place female workers is a massive hindrance to not just individual companies but the entire economy as a whole.

Have just realised this vagueness applies to me too. Every annual performance review consists of "You're doing a great job", with no pay rise or promotion. The template they use that we fill in consists of a "how can the company help you to help the business" and I always talk about the need for more support staff as I spend a large chunk of time doing work for which I am overqualified (and overpaid for this though underpaid for doing the difficult money-generating work that I should be spending all my time doing) and the staff who should be doing it are busy doing even more menial work which they in turn are overqualified for.
I do discuss my own specific goals in the performance review but I think I will have to spend more time setting, achieving and recording these so I can blast them with concrete, measurable proof of my ability and worth to the company at the next review.

Is reassuring that others feel the same DeviTheGaelet, though depressing it's widespread. The "vague feedback" article rings so true, I cannot remember a time anyone gave me more specific feedback than "you're doing a great job, keep doing it" which is bad considering all the lipservice my company pays to the importance of diversity and growing female leaders.

I'm going to channel sparrowhawk and go about being even more awesome this year (until I have the courage to setup that business on my own...)

I need to demonstrate more before I get promoted. The 'more' is never very well defined.

According to my managers, it means "doing something really spectacular, like walking on water."

So that was constructive.

That's what I did Ruby! I can heartily recommend it.

women were under constant, intense pressure, with company restructuring, lack of managerial support and balancing work and family life leaving them feeling drained.

This bit from the article perfectly describes my situation right now, it's quite a revelation to see it written down! My confidence is really low right now and I'm exhausted trying to keep up with all the competing demands of work and home (we have 2 young kids). I've seen men around me at work get promoted for doing the same stuff as me, while I just get told that i'm doing a great job but I need to demonstrate more before I get promoted. The 'more' is never very well defined.

Am tempted to just leave them all to it to start my own business and hire all the awesome women I know.

I think Dale Spender wrote on men perceiving women to be in the majority if there are as many as 30% women in a room back in the 1970s, but I can't be bothered to check references at this time of night.

Research doesn't really get to the stage of being research if it doesn't account for the basics like this

I was kind of hoping for a link to the research papers, not just taking a persons word for it.

Yeah, I first recall learning about this in the 90s.

That's really interesting. Would be interesting to know what the mix was in these discussions. More senior people tend to talk more, men are more likely to be senior so does that explain the discrimination. Or is it people of similar experience and you still see men talking over the women.

Research doesn't really get to the stage of being research if it doesn't account for the basics like this.

Incidentally this was definitely something concluded by studies before 2012, I learned it while studying linguistics several years prior, IIRC.

See, I see this as "the expectation is that women will feel more responsible for stuff [and if they do not, they will be penalised}. Men tend to think abou themselves first

I'm sure one way we could help with this would be to improve paternity leave for men. At the moment typically it's the woman who takes time off to look after the baby. The mans work life continues as normal(ish) as she is caring for the baby.
When she returns to work the question is what is she going to do with the baby because it's been her job for the last six / nine months.

I would love it if men got 4 weeks paternity leave at 90% pay. It has to be taken when their partners mat leave ends.
It might help move towards both parents taking on more responsibility for their kids.

If we can get to a place where caring responsibilities fall more evenly maybe that can help reduce discrimation against women in the workplace.

*Huge generalisation alert:

is it also because women tend to feel more responsible for stuff? men tend to think about themselves first, others second. And men have that built in sense of "I'm a good person' while women don't, and hence women worry,stress about all aspects of their life while men don't?

See, I see this as "the expectation is that women will feel more responsible for stuff [and if they do not, they will be penalised}. Men tend to think abou themselves first ...[and fuck knows is a woman does this she is considered a ball-breaking cunt] and men are raised to think of themselves first and not to doubt they are good people, and women to think they are bad / flawed .... etc.

There are so many stories like your man and Shakey. And then there are endless articles about why women don't make it to the top, as though it's some sort of mystery.

I have recently been discriminated against and bullied at work. I consider myself a strong female character, professional and capable. For NO reason that I could think of and a subsequent appeal backed me up. But the stress was unbelievable. And the complete bewilderment has made me doubt my capabilities, even though I knew I was "right". My confidence in the workplace is rocked and I spend too much time ensuring correct procedures as I still feel my card is marked for daring to defend myself. I'm more saddened that the LM and manager who were instrumental are also female Thankfully it was also a female who conducted my appeal, saw there were zero grounds and absolutely no evidence and upheld it

I'm still leaving when I'm able to though.

This is really interesting. I have struggled to further my career since having a child, despite only taking 6 mos maternity leave, and working my ass of since then (5 yrs ago).

I have recently realised that I just don't fit with the office boys' club's view of a senior exec, despite delivering good work on a par with theirs.

I'm going to retrain in 2017 to a profession where I think I will be more valued.

Actually I think we should try X, as always was suggesting". Seen people referring to it as "amplifying

This is a really good plan. I try to do it with others and have had others do it to me. Really adds impact.

Agree with sparrow it's such a shame it's necessary but we don't live in a perfect world, got to make the best of what we've got

Huge generalisation alert:

is it also because women tend to feel more responsible for stuff? men tend to think about themselves first, others second. And men have that built in sense of "I'm a good person' while women don't, and hence women worry,stress about all aspects of their life while men don't?

That can be effective slightly, but it's ridiculous that it's necessary.

Getting someone to repeat your point while naming you can be effective - e.g. "Actually I think we should try X, as always was suggesting". Seen people referring to it as "amplifying".

It does require at least one supportive colleague though, and sometimes there isn't one.

TheSparrowhawk agree with you on this as spot on "But discrimination is insidious, it's incredibly subtle. Research from 2012 found that in a mixed gender group men always talk more than women yet when women speak 25% of the time they're seen as dominating the conversation. Women are far more likely to be ignored, interrupted, talked over. One particular classic that I've experienced numerous times is making a point to have it ignored only for a man to make exactly the same point, to much praise, two minutes later. The constant drip drip drip is soul destroying."

Specifically asked a fellow Senior Colleague how to deal with such situations and was advised to just 'accept' and find another way to get your point across via another 'respected colleague.'

I prefer your approach Sparrowhawk of recognising the talent and promoting it and therefore now focus efforts on developing female team members confidence in their abilities. The skills they bring to the table are valuable and support from those with some influence does help, as well as the increase in numbers.

I agree about the long hours thing. One bunch of men I work with are 'so busy' and 'work so hard' - it's total bollocks. They drag meetings out way beyond necessary, take 2 hour lunches and work incredibly slowly. I could get triple the amount of work they do done in half the time.

There is definitely something about the working hours culture which needs tackling.

It shouldn't be necessary but it's become almost a macho thing to be working late and long hours all the time especially when it isn't even necessary. I know because my colleagues do it and when you question then, they're actually pissing about at home with little to do but are logging on "just to check".

As for having a partner at home who doesn't work, or works a lot less, that also plays a massive factor and in the past was nearly always a woman. Most older men I come across, with grown up children, don't seem to understand that it's hard juggling a family and a senior executive job.
And also I don't want to spend 99% of my waking hours worrying about work. Even if I did have a SAHD! I work to live not the other way around.