We're getting 'Gender Neutral' toilets at work

girl - I was talking about the real life experiences that my 11 year old daughter is facing, is that okay?

"Boys are othered!"

Yes, the world is such a default female place, innit?

Women should have the right to bodily privacy in sex segregated loos if that can reasonably be provided.
It matters not one jot that there exist women on this thread or elsewhere that would choose not to exercise that right.
If those women or men attempt to pressurise, question, shame, mock or express disdain that you should wish to exercise your right places them firmly in the category of people whose opinions are irrelevant. Choosing not to exercise a right doesn't make it ok to try to take that right away from others who do wish to exercise their rights.

Express your concerns to your employer OP. you will NOT be the only woman concerned and many will not speak up precisely because they fear unsympathetic attitides of "what's your problem, you prude?"

Removing women's privacy is a legitimate concern.

sigh

I think fears about the next generation of boys are justified. They are certainly well "othered" on here all the time. Smelly, inconsiderate, dangerous and to be avoided if you feel emotional. No wonder you want to avoid them.

Yes big, it is more than just a place to pee, much more. It's where a woman can go to adjust her hijab or wash a stain off her clothes in the sink. Touch up her make up, have a cry,.

I am actually more concerned about the next generation of boys. Dd is eleven and has had some horrendous sexualised comments aimed at her, porn videos openly watched. Some of them seem more misogynistic than their fathers.

There is a difference between 'unisex' and 'gender neutral' I think.

If they are like the 'gender neutral' loos (labelled as such) at my local uni there will be urinals in one corner, with only a low wall separating them and then cubicles.

What this means in practice is everyone uses the same entrance but the men can swan off to piss while woman wait in line.
If a man is waiting in line then he obviously wants to do more than piss.

I think if there is not a high volume of traffic then perhaps this co-existence would be OK? (Although I'm not keen on men pissing near me but hey ho).

However in the case of a lot of traffic (ie at a gig) it means there is a long queue to get in the door but men squeezing past to get to the urinals and twice the number of people in the queue for cubicles.

So actually not gender neutral at all in fact because women can't use the urinals whereas men can use urinals AND cubicles.

So actually they should be called 'men's (but women come and use the cubicle).(If you don't mind us squeezing past to piss) (and if you don't mind the bloke in the next cubicle doing a poo)(and if you don't mind seeing us piss)"

Yours might be different though.

(The 'Gender Neutral' sign is very nicely painted in large red letters though, just to you know, Make The Point).

I broke down at work once when I had some bad news over the phone about my mothers health.

I went to the toilets to sob my heart out (there are no private rooms in the entire building). A very nice female colleague was very sweet to me and comforted me and helped gather my possessions so I could go home.

I think most of my male colleagues would have found the whole episode very uncomfortable.

We need private spaces for more than just a place to pee.

I am very open about periods, my daughter and I support a charity that raises money to provide toilets for girls so that they can still go to school when they have their periods. They build toilets and buy pants. I am not uptight because I want to keep toilets sex segregated. I do not want to share facilities with the sex that is most likely to cause me harm is all.

Lass - we are losing the language we have to even name ourselves. Debate is stifled as women are redefined as menstruators, debates are derailed in the name of inclusivety. while this is happening women can make no progress.

I'm in the 'yuk I would hate this ' camp. It's bad enough trying to have a discreet poo in the ladies ! If I thought a male colleague could walk in I would be mortified!!!! And as for dealing with changing tampons & rustly pad packages......... it's a no from me. Would have to consider resigning.......... it may be an age thing? Younger women are more likely to be flat sharing with guys , have more open conversation about periods etc than us 'older' ladies?

When - on the whole sex segregated toilets do make women and girls feel safe, 98% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men and it's nice not to share facilities with men when you're vulnerable. Obviously some girls can be nasty too but the evidence shows that sex segregated toilets keep women safe. There are women across the globe who cannot leave their homes as they have no access to sex segregated toilets. Please don't be so ready to hand over the hard one rights of women and girls.

I agree that we need to be more open about periods and that's becoming harder as women are barely allowed to talk about them

The attitudes on here from grown up women are hardly conducive to being more open.

How are women "barely allowed to talk about them"?

Dame what fear are you talking about specifically? And how would unisex toilets be any less private than the more conventional women's? Presumably it will still be a bank of cubicles and some communal sinks..."

It's not girls and womens job to "get over" their fear, their fear is justified. We have the right to sex segregated toilets. We have the right to privacy.

I agree that we need to be more open about periods and that's becoming harder as women are barely allowed to talk about them.

Why do most men in uk pee standing up? Moan other countries it's discouraged and no urinals etc. Boys are taught to pee sitting down so by the time they are adults most still do. Both children and Dh sit here, means no pissy bathroom at home. At my children's school all boys are also told to sit to pee so the toilets stay cleaner and less likely children miss aim

While "hysterical" is more apt in the context of a period than any other time, it's not a word that I used.

Reading every opposing viewpoint as an attack is not a helpful way to have a discussion.

I agree that the best way for a young person going through puberty to feel less awkward about periods would be for every adult around them to be very matter-of-fact and say it's no big deal, we all know everyone poops, this is just another thing that happens rather than freaking out about someone hearing them unwrap a pad

Got to agree with this, I would love it if Britain could be a bit less up tight about completely normal bodily functions.

There was shocking bullying in the girls toliets at the high school I went to. If only sex segragation did make young girls feel safe.

The best way for a young girl going through puberty is to have sex segregated facilities where they feel safe and secure.

Okay Trills, so women have nothing to fear from men and are just being hysterical, we need to get over it. Right oh.

I would still like to keep sex segregated toilets and so would my daughter and my mother, thank you.

I agree that the best way for a young person going through puberty to feel less awkward about periods would be for every adult around them to be very matter-of-fact and say it's no big deal, we all know everyone poops, this is just another thing that happens rather than freaking out about someone hearing them unwrap a pad.

If you are scared of spiders, when your toddler finds a spider you try to pretend to be brave so they don't learn your fear.

My work has two mens loos per floor and twp ladies.

Often I see men waiting when there's a ladies loo available, or vice versa.

If there were just "four loos" there would be less waiting.

It's more efficient.

they are fully enclosed cubicles with basins and free tampons/towels in a box. No one has a problem with it.

No-one has a problem with that on this thread - we are talking about shared facilities.

The getting changed point is a good one - we often have women getting changed and putting make up in the ladies. A tiny cubicle with a tampon bin can be used but not ideal. We go to events in the evening and people don't want to drag their expensive gowns into a tiny cubicle.

Can somebody explain to me the benefits of unisex facilities? If some people don't mind them and others object to them then surely the compromise is remaining sex-segregated? It costs money and causes problems to change to unisex so I am baffled by doing this in an existing building. In a new build with separate unisex toilets - I've no problem.

*that more of them are men.

There was a really horrible case in the papers recently where a woman found out that her male colleagues had been tracking her menstrual cycle and commenting and joking about it to each other and making misogynistic remarks about her abilities and competencies based on it (iirc). While this is hopefully a rare case I doubt it is unique (I've never heard of a similar case being reported but I don't doubt this hasn't happened to good few other women). It also wasn't to do with unisex toilets - I think they worked it out without sharing toilet facilities but the idea that all men are going to just not care and be mature and respectful is in my opinion naive. There are plenty of men who would delight in belittling a woman or announcing that she's not being rational as it's "that time of the month". The world is filled with narcissists, bullies and abusers. Sadly research indicates that more of them and for this reason I fully understand why women do not want to share facilities with men. I am self employed and don't have to share with anyone thankfully but I'm not going to write off other women's concerns.