Third wave feminism

Sorry ,meant the structure where the owner of premises provides facilities for hire is not an employer/ employee structure. Many hairdressing and beautician salons legitimately work on that basis

So all this talk of "employees' rights" is nonsense.

Fruit, you say you're not in favour of criminalising men who buy sex as it pushes prostitution underground and it's more dangerous. Don't you think the same would happen if prostitution was legalised but PPE had to be worn, which you say you would approve of? I think you are well aware that will never happen, otherwise surely you'd have a problem with it for the same reason?

I can't speak for German employment law but the model used in the German brothels but you may well not understand the differences between employed and self-employed. The German brothel owners are providing premises which prostitutes hire.

Changing the wider public's perception with seemingly pointless use of different terms might not change things overnight but I don't see how it can be a flat out negative
I think we all want the same thing here

Are we ? I don't want a society where punters are treated with anything other than contempt. You seem to want one where it will be easier for them to buy sex and no one uses nasty words about them.

Well lass the owners of the brothel are clearly employers. So German law seems to be at fault there.

Aren't the women in the German brothels treated as self employed as they rent the rooms from the owner? So no "workers' rights"

You say you are in favour of protective regulations - so that includes face masks, latex gloves, scrubs etc when dealing with punters?

I deal with bodily fluids every day. I have never worn scrubs. However gloves and a face mask seem sensible. It would mean purchasing sex is much less desirable, and may kill the market for it altogether! Now THAT would be nice.

The problem is, Fruit, that enhancing the protection of the law, ie legalising all aspects of prostitution/exchange of sex for money has the unintended effect of legitimising it. The more legitimate it is, the more it happens. We've seen the results of that in the mega-brothels in Germany. So I can't in all conscience support that. Nordic model all the way for me.

I'm not an abolitionist as such. I just want the legitimacy of the sexual exploitation of women and girls to wither away into nothing as we evolve away from the idea that consent can be bought. It's a concept that seems very resistant to change, but it's in no way an inevitable fact of life that some people seem to believe. They used to say that about slavery, too.

Enid once again, my comment was regarding the terminology. I certainly acknowledge that the industry is absolutely riddled with vile and corrupt individuals (generally men if I'm not mistaken). Progress towards protection and equality is slow. Changing the wider public's perception with seemingly pointless use of different terms might not change things overnight but I don't see how it can be a flat out negative.
I think we all want the same thing here.

So that would mean prostitutes would wear the same level of protective clothing as any other worker who comes into contact with body fluids

You say you are in favour of protective regulations - so that includes face masks, latex gloves, scrubs etc when dealing with punters?

Women trafficked for sex are not working legally are they? Massive contradiction right there.

So that would mean prostitutes would wear the same level of protective clothing as any other worker who comes into contact with body fluids.

If self employed they or their employers (aka pimps) would register under the VAT system.

Brothels would require planning consent.

Yes, I am in favour of this. I think PPE should be encouraged!

Sorry that last comment was for Lass

Enid my comment was not directed at anyone in particular on this thread. It was just my $0.02 worth on the nomenclature.
No offence intended.

Legalisation means regulation and ideally an end to practices under which people are exploited

So that would mean prostitutes would wear the same level of protective clothing as any other worker who comes into contact with body fluids.

If self employed they or their employers (aka pimps) would register under the VAT system.

Brothels would require planning consent.

I think ( happy to be corrected as not an expert by any means) that the term 'sex worker' implies an equality with other forms of work e.g a farm worker and all that that gives the worker in terms of protected rights under the law. In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights.

I'm sat here applauding you.

Yes, in an ideal world people would not sell sex. But whilst they do, they need protection of the law.

In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights

Prostitution is legal in the UK and as far as I am aware most European countries probably. Other than countries operating a religious based legal system the act of selling sex may well be legal in most countries

What is not legal in the UK is what Scot Pep refer to as "the management" i. e the pimps and brothel keepers or soliciting publicly on the street.

Selling sex or being a prostitute is not a job like any other.

I can't begin to understand why you think any one on here thinks prostitutes are less worthy of human rights but calling prostitution "sex work" does not stop prostitution being commercial sexual exploitation.

I should add, in case it's not clear, that I fully support the rights of sex workers to go about their business with protection under the law. Legalisation means regulation and ideally an end to practices under which people are exploited.

I think ( happy to be corrected as not an expert by any means) that the term 'sex worker' implies an equality with other forms of work e.g a farm worker and all that that gives the worker in terms of protected rights under the law. In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights.

DeviTheGaelet

Not good enough, "people that exchange sex for money" is just another way of saying prostitute which is just another way of saying whore. You are basically just calling women whores if you acknowledge prostitution at all. Best just not talk about it. Maybe it will just all get better?

Ok, in future I will be sure to type "people that exchange sex for money". Seems a bit unnecessary as that is literally the dictionary definition of prostitute but hey ho. Maybe I could acronym it.