Women's March London 21st January

Oo, choosey choosey, eh?

That's a definite out from me then. Making my choice not to attend and assuming no one will have a problem with that. Cause feminism is all about choices isn't it :)

Cis privilege?

It's actually an anti-women march then, isn't it? I think that's a clear warning to stay away.

I am very happy to march with people I don't agree with on other things but there has to be a clear objective or there is too much of a risk of ending up marching behind something you don't agree with.

I will be making the trek from the frozen North for Million Women Rise again but can't risk doing so for something as vague as this march, sorry.

I know it's hard organising things, your harshest critics always seem to be people with whom you have a lot in common, but I still can't take the risk (it being a lot of time and money that could be put to better use) without clear aims.

The line about gorgeousness is a massive red flag to me that this might not actually be a feminist event, not to mention the use of the word cis which many feminists find hugely problematic.

Well, the women's march twitter account has just tweeted two things about "cis privilege" , so I think we can safely assume what sort of fun fem handmaidens are in charge

That sums it up well Prawn

I see from the website they list the Women's Equality Party, Amnesty and Unite as partners. If I were part of the management teams of Amnesty and Unite I would be thinking seriously about not associating with this.

The WEP has so little credibility it hardly matters.

It's clear that user148 and OP, another user148 whatever, I can't help thinking that anyone who can't be arsed to bother to create a username is unlikely to want to engage for more than a thread or two are flouncing because they can't answer our questions. It seems no one has actually agreed any specific objectives for this march. Very odd. They seem to have assumed that all they had to do was announce a feminist march and women would sign up without wanting any further detail.

I can entirely see the point of the American march. The London one doesn't seem to have any. The date chosen makes it certain that any coverage will frame it as anti Trump.

It's not as if the British establishment is cheerleading for Trump. They will, of course, work with any American president but their lack of enthusiasm is palpable. There's no suggestion that reproductive healthcare for women is under threat here and, although I feel great sympathy for American women facing obstacles in obtaining abortion, it's not something a march in London will affect.

There are many organisations getting involved in this march. They will be in communication with each other.

Please can you name the organisations, User?

I think the question was asked before and never answered.

This march is a very particular one at a very particular time. No one would usually come together under such a broad umbrella. The reason this very broad movement is happening at this time is that the conditions for Trump and Brexit and many other political developments around Europe have been created by a centralised 'establishment' politics that has left huge swathes of society feeling invisible, unvalued. The division that has been allowed to grow has created a level of unrest and fear in 2016 that needs to be addressed. To march for equality, dignity, respect for human rights across the board at this time is because, across the board, our divisions are being actively and exploitatively played upon. The fault lines for these divisions run along the usual veins of misogyny, racism, poverty, etc. There will be other actions in 2017. Hopefully laser focused ones. This one will be to bring us together and to strengthen us to fight back. There are many organisations getting involved with this march. They will be in communication with each other. They will be a sounding out the lay of the land and working out how to move forward. It is an uncertain space that is being opened here but alliances are being built.

Being against 'the rising forces of division' and for 'the dignity and equality of all peoples, for the safety and health of our planet and for the strength of our vibrant and diverse communities' sounds fine, and I might support that stuff, but it's not feminism.

No mention of rights, dignity, equality, safety, health, strength of women, girls or even females.

It reminds me of something my father used to say about some campaigns being 'for all the good things and against all the bad things.'

The thing is, divisions exist because of differing philosophies, beliefs etc. Unless opposing or disparate factions have a common goal, there is no reason for them to come together. And so far the publicity surrrounding this event has failed to articulate a clear goal, apart from maybe anti-Trump, according to your website, but specifically not accordingly to what organisers are posting on here, which just adds to the confusion.

I went on a UAF march against the EDL a few years ago. It was fab, there were all factions there - various religious groups, political groups, LGBT groups, militant anti-fascists, anarchists (a lot of whom got themselves arrested walking down streets we'd been told not to by police), as well as families and individuals. We all sang and stood together and opposed the EDL and stopped them entering a park they had announced a rally at (the park had been named after a Bangladeshi man beaten to death by racists, so did not seem a fit place for an EDL rally). Anyway, a lot of people had opposing ideologies that day, but came together for a common goal - protest against the EDL.

If there is a clear common goal, people come together. If there isn't a common goal then it's a lot more difficult. The worry is that participation would be interpreted in a different way from that which you intended. I bet any money that no matter what you say, the media will report marches on that date as protesting against Trump.

Not at all Starry I thought this summed it up well.

"I'm unhappy and I will march, with no specific cause or aim!!"

It's kind of like the march equivalent of a general strike.

Lass put it more concisely than me

There is no comparison with the very focused aims of BLM and this march.

"BLM" is a specific group with an aim.

"make a unified stand against rising forces of division" as a group? Catchy name and not at all a wishy washy response.

Who is behind it? There is is no information about the organisers.

I am going to stop engaging in this. It's deeply uninspiring. I am marching on the 21st. Happy New Year to you all and the best of luck with your political actions for 2017.

this is the sort of question that curtailed the Occupy movement and will not add to this. The aim is to make a unified stand against rising forces of division. The problem with being so internet based is that we are forgetting the real, powerful, galvanising, heartening strength that comes from bodies getting out on the street together. I went on a BLM march after the death of Philando Castille. Its was amazing and it directly helped me to feel energised to fight back. The internet is crippling social action. Get out on the streets and see what happens. Or don't and see what won't.

"I'm unhappy and I will march, with no specific cause or aim!!"

I still don't understand what the point of this march is-who is it aimed at? Who is supposed to modify or adjust policy because of it?

Oh and here's the definition of gorgeous.
beautiful; very attractive.
"gorgeous colours and exquisite decoration"
synonyms: good-looking, attractive, nice-looking, handsome, lovely, beautiful, pretty, as pretty as a picture, stunning, striking, arresting, prepossessing, winning, fetching, captivating, bewitching, beguiling, engaging, charming, charismatic, enchanting, appealing, delightful, irresistible; More
informal
very pleasant or enjoyable.
"the weather was gorgeous"
synonyms: excellent, marvellous, superb, very good, first-rate, first-class, wonderful, delightful, outstanding, exceptional, magnificent, splendid, superlative, matchless, peerless; More

So now, rather than women's march (as it includes non-women) or anti trump march (which you have been keen to isolate it from) it's basically an "anyone who is a little bit unhappy about anything" (all of the intersectionality posts, plus "Trump, Brexit, Putin, Assad, Syria, the refugee crisis, austerity") march?

No it doesn't and women are oppressed because of our biology. We are the sex class. The class that is expected to bear and rear children. This is basic feminism and I really don't appreciate your patronising tone thanks. I'll stick to doing what I always do, fighting rape culture, working against VAWG and working towards the implementation of the Nordic Model. Enjoy your walk.

it means 'excellent, marvellous, superb, very good, first-rate, first-class, wonderful, delightful, outstanding, exceptional, magnificent, splendid, superlative, matchless, peerless;great, glorious, terrific, tremendous, smashing, fantastic, sensational'
Thanks to Kimberly for making such efforts with her time and energy to generate an action at the beginning of January 21 to bring us together, it is very appreciated. The action will welcome thousands, all with their own voices. None of those voices will speak for one and all but together we will make a beautiful noise.

I appreciate your concerns. I think it oversimplifies to say that 'women are oppressed because of our biology'. Where does the relationship between biology, language, power start and end - It's complexity is immense. It's important to, in the midst of the complicated questions surrounding identity and oppression to focus on the issue of sliding scales of human value. This march is not an attempt to get round the intractable and endlessly demanding questions surrounding identity and oppression. It is an attempt to look at how those complexities are being exploited towards stoking division and the rise of hate and deflecting political energy away from centres of power. This seems like an important time to focus on valuing equality, dignity and human value - even whilst we acknowledge the complexity of response that the social structuring of power demands. The women in this march are also mothers, sisters, wives, partners, aunts, friends. Their identities are complex and enfolded. For my part, as a woman, I wish to extend my definition of kinship and defend the rights of those who are oppressed. If the trans community are fighting oppression and the immense pressure they are subject to, then yes, I will most certainly stand with them too.

Well said Prawn.

And gorgeousness? What does that even mean?