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Original poster

AA Gill and misogyny and homophobia....

38 replies

PacificDogwod · 13/12/2016 17:27

Ok, don't all shout at me at once, but I am up for a lively debate and/or to be educated.

I did not want this conversation on the other thread as he a. is dead and b. has bereaved family including young children and it just seemed in poor taste.

I have always enjoyed his writing, often disagreed with his content (I am German, a Hun - need I say more?!) but did enjoy his way with words and found him funny, acerbic and often prepared to say deeply uncomfortable things.
There is no doubt in my mind that he was a deeply flawed individual and was screwed up enough to keep a psychoanalyst in work for decades, but (and here it comes) I read his famous remark that Prof Mary Beard was 'too ugly for TV' as not a sexist slur about her appearance but a scathing indictment about just how superficial TV was, how no matter how brilliant or qualified you were to present a program, if you did not have the required looks the medium would reject you.
Similarly, the whole 'Dyke on a Bike' quip about Clare Balding I took as a critique of the program which he felt was boring and the most interesting thing about it was the presenter and her sexuality and how wonderfully the two rhymed (I gather there is a parade in Australia where the phrase may have originated from?). I have never seen the program, I have no idea how good or bad it was.

Reading some of his articles that popped up when I searched 'AA Gill' and 'misogyny' about pregnancy, children's sexuality, women I found insightful, honest and raw.

He was no doubt a product of his upbringing, his alcoholism, his dyslexia, had chips the size of the Rockies on both shoulders and could destroy with a sharp turn of phrase although his ire was usually reserved for the deserving IMO. His humanity and deep compassion is clear to me when he writes about famine and refugees for instance.

So, what am I missing? Please don't bring up the sodding baboon - I have a different take on that too, but am mainly interested in the misogyny angle.
I think he loved women, was terrified of them, wanted/needed to be loved more than was healthy, but did not hate them.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 13/12/2016 22:28

So are you saying that he was offensive to (for example) Mary Beard and Clare Balding because he was a tireless campaigner against the shallowness, misogyny and homophobia of the mainstream media?

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 13/12/2016 22:28

And fwiw, Mary Beard really isn't ugly.

Manumission · 13/12/2016 22:27

I was thinking more of the two DC that are old enough to be googling.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 13/12/2016 22:27

Ok, just to address one of your points....Mary Beard comment.....everyone knows that there are many, many ugly blokes on tv. Ugly men on tv = common, ugly women, rare. So I disagree with you on that. And I don't believe her was referring to any double-standard, just being a bit of an arsehole.

IrenetheQuaint · 13/12/2016 22:26

Oh for heaven's sake, Manumission - AA Gill would have loved this thread! He was always off stabbing some sacred cow or other. And he would have enjoyed the attention, too.

Manumission · 13/12/2016 22:23

I did not want this conversation on the other thread as he a. is dead and b. has bereaved family including young children and it just seemed in poor taste.

Fair dos, but he's still dead, still has a young bereaved family and he hasn't even been dead a week.

So still pretty poor taste TBH.

FreiasBathtub · 13/12/2016 22:21

Yes I agree Pacific, I think you put it really well. I was talking to someone about this yesterday and we concluded that we completely disagreed with a great deal of what he wrote but were very glad that he wrote it, nonetheless.

I don't know whether this weirdo year has made me reflect more than I otherwise would, but it feels to me like it's good to have your viewpoint challenged by someone who can't be knocked down easily or put into a little box and then dismissed. It's good to see that clever, witty, articulate people can have views that are, in some places, quite different to mine (which are fairly smug middle class liberal wishy washy etc etc), while being very similar in others. I'm glad that his voice was out there and am saddened that there's nobody I can really see to replace it.

Incidentally, this post by Esther McCoren (wife of Giles Coren) almost made me cry on the way to work this morning: onthespike.wordpress.com/2016/12/12/adrian/ I'm still not quite sure why.

MissSlighcarp · 13/12/2016 22:17

He was once married to Amber Rudd. Hmm

Original poster
PacificDogwod · 13/12/2016 22:11

No, the JC association is almost enough to put me off - grim!

Nope, I've not read Sap Rising, but have read enough about it that I am not bothered.
Will read some of his travel reportage again - I remember his piece about the Sudan to have touched me at the time (I had just been back from Africa myself).

The Welsh thing? Yes, that and his going on about just how appalling ALL Germans are - I dunno, it was just so OTT that, again, when I read it at the time and again now, my interpretation was that he was getting every imaginable prejudice and cliché out there to highlight quite how ridiculous that was.
Oh, and I think he was needy and envious and insecure to the nth degree and was trying very, very hard to get noticed and to get a reaction.

I have a naughty dog who comes and steals a furry sofa cushion when he's bored because he knows he'll get a reaction; I suspect that Gill had more brains than my daft hound!

OP posts:
IrenetheQuaint · 13/12/2016 22:01

He was a complex character and clearly got a thrill from saying shocking things (did you ever read his infamous condemnation of the Welsh? or his appallingly bad sex-obsessed novel Sap Rising?). Plus he used to hang around with Jeremy Clarkson which is never a great sign.

But at his best he was incredibly sharp and insightful. There should be room in our society for people like him, as long as they get challenged when they behave like arses.

Original poster
PacificDogwod · 13/12/2016 21:56

Fair enuff, Prawn Grin

Same here, Smart.

He clearly had one or two brain cells to rub together, and can be so eloquent in his description of human suffering, that I take some of his more outrageous statements about women as firmly tongue in cheek. Or, more likely, made to hold up a mirror to everybody who holds those views.

As an aside, I am not sure I liked his writing as particularly literary but he did have an impressive array of unexpected metaphors which I enjoyed - yes, I am easily amused.

OP posts:
Smartleatherbag · 13/12/2016 21:06

Really interesting post, Pacific. I always felt conflicted, as I loved his style and compassion, but disliked much of his content, iyswim?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 13/12/2016 21:03

I didn't like AA Gill. Didn't rate his writing or the personality that came across in it. But because of this I'm not interested enough to want to discuss him, tbh.

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