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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

women in STEM

37 replies

Lorelei76 · 12/12/2016 11:00

apparently this was set up to challenge stereotypes

all I can see is it reinforcing them?

what do others think?

www.womanthology.co.uk/tired-gender-stereotypes-stem-careers-set-publishing-company-change-next-generations-perceptions-kerrine-bryan-engineer-founder-butterfly-books/

OP posts:
rightsofwomen · 12/12/2016 11:50

Het True! We had a series called Sex in Science don't even get me started on why they called it Sex in Science, that's a whole other rant
where women at the top of their field were invited to speak to us about how they made it.

Couldn't relate to any of them! They were either very, very rich, had partners with incredible salaries, packed the kids off to boarding school at age 10 or made an active choice not to have children. That's what worked for them and that's fine, but it didn't really motivate us as we slunk back to our desks, clock watching and wondering about what to cook for dinner

Thefitfatty · 12/12/2016 11:34

There are general books about science and books specifically targeting kids about possible careers. Quite often, when talking about careers to young children, you approach it from a "My Mommy does..." or "My Daddy does..." That's why career days are important.

this seems to be starting from the premise that a woman must have a child.

Or that a woman can be both a mother and a professional in a STEM field?

Wouldn't books that start with "My Daddy is..." not starting with the premise that a man must have a child?

M0stlyHet · 12/12/2016 11:32

Sorry, cross posted with you, Lorelei. I think I see your issue a bit more - but the point I was trying to make when I said that that books for children needed to be rooted in particular people was that you need books that match up with someone they can see in the world around them. So maybe as well as "my mum's a scientist", "my aunt's a scientist" where the aunt might not have children of her own might fit your brief - but if the person becomes too detached from what the child sees in their own life, then it ceases to work as subtle inspiration. (Funnily enough a colleague of mine said this a propos of our inspirational speakers programme at work - we need less incredibly high flying people we haven't a hope in hell of emulating and more "here's how I managed to juggle children/caring responsibilities/carving out time to volunteer in community projects and still get a paper in Nature" from people whose lives look believable like our own). It's a big issue when it comes to race too - whether science, or all white corps-de-ballet, symphony orchestras, casts in the local panto, pictures of the cabinet sitting round the cabinet table in 10 Downing St.

EmeliaHerveyHenryFitzroy · 12/12/2016 11:25

I think the book series sounds great too.

M0stlyHet · 12/12/2016 11:24

I'm a mother, and work in STEM (and like rights, have been into DS's primary school to talk about my job and do demos - fantastic fun). All books aimed at children tend to try to move from the general to the particular to make a point in terms of what children have around them - so "this woman (no identifying particulars) is a scientist" wouldn't make much of a book for kids, "my mum is a scientist" does (and also helps handle any of the lingering Janet-and-John only role for a mother is making cakes and kissing boo-boos - though perhaps to destigmatise current attitudes to SAHM, there should also be one along the lines of "my mum was a mathematician, she's taking a career break, but she'll go back to it when I'm old enough").

I think the book series sounds great. DS flips between thinking my job is pretty cool, and rolling his eyes (and announcing he wants to be a banker....)

Lorelei76 · 12/12/2016 11:21

I bought loads of books about science for my god daughter and didn't find women were under represented - you can imagine, being me, I looked them over carefully before buying them.

this seems to be starting from the premise that a woman must have a child. It could easily have been "I want to be a ..."

I don't know enough about the children's book market, maybe it is a huge step forward but if it is, and if children's books still mostly show male doctors and plumbers, that's a pity.

There is a personal element for me in that woman = mother is the most problematic of stereotypes (I'd argue not just for me actually) but then again that's a problem at the core of the feminism.

sorry that's all a bit heavy for Monday morning and I'm looking after mum today so if the discussion gets longer and I'm not back, please bear with me, I'll be back eventually..!

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rightsofwomen · 12/12/2016 11:17

It's marketed at children, who by definition will most likely have a Mummy.

They'll be able to relate it to their own lives. Reading such a book at an early age hopefully won't result in them having that lightbulb moment at 15 or 16, when they realise that women can be engineers, but rather they'll grow up just accepting it as a norm. I think that's the idea and I like it.

I work in STEM and have been into my son's primary school during Science week. I really like to think that some of the girls will see that normal people like me can do science. They see me at the school, they see my out running, they see me at the park with my son and now they also know that I have a science job.

EmeliaHerveyHenryFitzroy · 12/12/2016 11:17

I think I see your point but the "my daddy" series would be redundant as those really are the male dominated jobs. Making my mummy books just seeks to normalise or destigatise women in STEM.

As for it being framed as a parent, I don't know how else it could framed. My parent (woman) is an engineer. ?

But I might be missing the bigger picture here in what you are saying.

Thefitfatty · 12/12/2016 11:15

It's written from the point of view of a child explaining what their Mummy does....I'm sure there are plenty of books explaining what a child's daddy does...This is just evening the playing field, and (in this I agree with her) opening up children's eyes to the wealth of jobs out there besides the traditional kid favorites: police officer, fire fighter, doctor etc.

Lorelei76 · 12/12/2016 11:11

maybe I'm missing something and there is a "My daddy" series?

OP posts:
Lorelei76 · 12/12/2016 11:11

because it's written about "my mummy"

so woman must = mother

there are lots of ways books like that could be presented, why this way?

OP posts:
Thefitfatty · 12/12/2016 11:06

How is it reinforcing them?

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