Shannon Mathews

The point we were making were - you felt Robert Black was as well known as Myra Hindley - many of us disagreed on that.

Evil, yes, of course. Terrible people.

Are we discussing the Matthews because Karen is in the news today?

I agree with a previous poster that the hatred for her is rooted in her absolutely blasé attitude towards the whole thing, which seems undiminished by a prison sentence.

"When I left prison I picked up a Bible and saw a passage about ‘God loves you’. I knew I was hated by everyone, cut off from my family… but here they were, saying I was loved.

I know I did something wrong but I’m not the baddest person people are making out. I am sorry for hurting people."

The reason she is uniquely hated is that she still has no idea what was so wrong with what she did, and she barely even has the brains to pretend she does.

She wasn't working class. She was Benefits class. Never worked.

But her partner did work, how is that different to anyone on here who is a 'stay at home mum'?

I know that she was a terrible mother, but not working when your partner is does not make you a bad mum.

Robert Black - dark, balding, and neatly bearded - arched eyebrows and distinctive eyes. An intelligent looking face, even a not unhandsome face. If you were casting for his life story could be played by Robert de Niro or similar.

No googling needed.

Myra Hindley kept herself in the public consciousness by gathering support for her release and by trying to escape prison.

If she'd been truly remorseful she would have accepted her punishment and not waited till 1987 to confess to her crimes (over a decade after she stopped writing to Brady so couldn't be said to be under his 'influence' for many years).

It was her repeated applications for parole which kept her in the news. Because every time it came up she'd have supporters on the TV or radio supporting her release and then the poor family members of her victims were retraumatised by constant requests from the press and having to speak publicly again and again about their pain as they feared her release.

I don't think that was why op mentioned thatcher, I think it was in response to the "benefits class" post rather than directly about Matthews?

I hate Thatcher (I grew up in the era) and will blame her for most things, but she's not to blame for Shannon Matthews.

I can see Robert Black's face without googling.

OP you are scraping the bottom of the barrel now trying to drag Thatcher into this.

I grew up in a well off rural area. The children from the ,admittedly rare, problem families were the children of children from the same families which problematic when my mother was at school. This was decades and many governments before Thatcher.

I live in the area where Hindley and Brady kidnapped tortured and murdered . I can see from my house the area where they hid theIr victims. Still struggling to see any value in making dubious points about them.

Sorry.

I think there is a lot of power in a name: Myra is very distinctive. (Actually, I don't know if it was forty years ago) Robert, Ian, Fred, much less so.

It wasn't just a kidnapping though!

Her kids had been neglected for years. The investigation found that her kids were starved, neglected, unwashed, etc.

So yes, she is a pretty nasty person! Woman or not

Robert Black murdered 4 little girls and suspected of more how can you not have heard of him? The reason Hindley and Brady is so prominent and notorious is because they refused to say where the children were they also kept themselves notorious

I don't think anyone is seeking to portray Hindley as a victim. I fully accept that she was an evil woman who thoroughly deserved the punishment imposed on her. But that does not stop me from also believing that she wasn't in the same league as Brady and that there is excellent reason to believe that if she hadn't met him she is very likely to have gone down a very different path in life.

I also don't think Robert Black is anything like as well known as Hindley, despite his conviction being much more recent. How many people can honestly bring his face to mind without googling him? Yet that police mugshot of Hindley is so well known that it's even been used as art.

I didn't, I had to Google.

I know who Robert Black is.

Maxine Carr did not attack any child but she covered up for Ian Huntley and now the public complains that the taxpayer spends a fortune on preserving her anonymity. Well it wouldn’t have to if she could live in peace without fear of reprisals from vengeful vigilantes

A defence of Maxine Carr from Ann Widdecombe.

Carr's crime was perverting the course of justice. The legal system treats this as a very serious crime because, as with perjury, it's fundamental to why law works. The public sometimes don't get that point (I've seen posts on MN on other cases where people have lied to the police which clearly didn't). Carr however did not deserve the vilification at the time nor the ongoing witch hunts.

I have never heard of Robert Black either.

I would say Robert Black is as well known as Hindley.

I've never heard of Robert Black!

Just so we are clear, Myra Hindley was demonised because she was a child abusing murderer. She is still very much a figure in living memory so making some half arsed point about her is neither big nor clever.

Unfortunately it is because of lazy, entitled parasites like Karen Matthews that so many people get tarred with the 'benefits class' brush. There is a small group of feckless wasters who think they are entitled and KM was well documented as telling people she had more dc in order to claim the child benefit. She was not 'working class'- that's an insult to grafters everywhere.

I think by 'benefits class' the poster meant the kind of people who have never worked and never intend to, and have kids and more kids to keep the benefits coming. People like this DO exist, and I suppose Karen Matthews was one of them.
The problem with it as a term is that these days all kinds of people are 'on benefits' of one kind or another just to survive.
I agree it is an insult to working people to describe this woman as 'working class'.

I'd love to know the answer to that too, Alfie

She wasn't working class. She was Benefits class. Never worked.

Ooh am I "benefits class" too? Or is that expression only for those who have "never worked"?