Shannon Mathews

Sorry, Louiseville.

Thats not quite true, Louisa,
www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php
Women tend to be imprisoned for first time offences - men tend not to be.
Theft and handling is the most common offence for women in prison thus their sentences are shorter.
women also daily do violent crimes just by the sheer number I don't know what this means.

Yes; very true - like the Connelly ,Matthews and Hindley apologists on here.

No-one on here is an "apologist" for those three, and it's disturbing that people are seeking to categorise the discussion in those terms. You can comment on the fact that they have been demonised more than men are for comparable crimes without in any way condoning or sympathising with their crimes, you know.

And I don't see how anyone can suggest that Brady has some sort of moral high ground just because he didn't campaign for release. The man's a psychopath who has tried to manipulate public opinion by playing games around the whereabouts of his victims, mainly because he wanted to get back at Hindley for daring to escape from his control. In his way he does his best to twist the knife in his victims' families' wounds by constantly trying to get publicity, whether it's by way of claims to have murdered five more people whom he refuses to name, his supposed hunger strike, his attempted judicial review action, or his recent pronouncements on Brexit.

Re Ethel Christie. She knew what he was doing. That much is obvious. Yet she returned to her abuser. She never once went to the police with her suspicions. Had she lived, my point is, she would have been treated just like Christie in the end, she would have been seen as much a murderer as he was. But, she tried to stop him, and this cost her her life.

Re Hindley, if she was a he, he would have been seen as a lesser person in the crime, though still his actions would have been deplorable. Hindley's crime was to be a woman. Because women shouldn't murder in such a way as men.

The only conclusion to reach from this discussion is that men are the one's who murder, and if women are accomplices, they are equally as bad. No matter how small a part they play.

Plus Hindley is seen as Brady's partner. He has always said she was a means to an end. I suppose a two year partnership is seen as a long term relationship. It has always been suggested that Hindley was under the total control of Brady, but this could be viewed as paternalistic I suppose. David Smith helped clean up the last of the victims. Perhaps he was under some sort of spell, or just an innocent 17 year old with previous convictions.

Ethel Christie was imo a victim I do not believe myra hindley was a victim of Ian Brady I think she did these things of her own will saying Ian Brady was worse does not make her crimes any less

I may be mistaken but aren't women generally found guilty less and sentences more leniently? You also have people campaigning saying prison isn't suitable for women etc.

I don't think women get it worse in the media, I think it's more rare for women to be put into the media for their crimes in general, we know most violent crimes are done by men but women also daily do violent crimes just by the sheer number but there isn't a spotlight on them. I think it has to be a lot more severe for women to be in the media eye, and in some crimes women get off lightly from the public such as sexual offences with teens or younger children than men get.

Although I don't think that discussing this from a equality issue is in itself a good idea. These people have done disgustingly evil things and I don't think campaigning for any to be treated better is a good idea.

Her car*

So because she was sorry she lured children into got her brother in law to help lift a boy buried others its ok she isnt a monster. the only time she helped police is when she wanted an appeal. There is still children missing she knew where they were yet chose to lead police on a wild goose chase. The only person myra hindly was sorry for was myra hindley Imo

He wanted to go to prison. She wanted to be released into the community with a new identity so she could meet up with one of her lovers under lifelong protection from the Police and government.

And we know she had lots of supporters. That's the point in how she WAS treated differently because she was a woman. Can anyone name me any male gay or straight murderers of children that recorded it have MPs and Religious leaders campaigning for their release?. Nah.

And she was so manipulative and exploitative that she ditched her supporters when she felt they were no longer useful for her case. Like she did to Lord Longford after his years of support for her.

And every interview I've read of Police Officers that actually interviewed her said she gave as little information as she could get away with.

Brady hates Ashworth prison and always wanted out, he wanted to go to a normal prison.

www.scotsman.com/news/uk/moors-murderer-ian-brady-insists-he-is-sane-1-2974891

He described his murderous actions as recreational killings, and that he was 'method acting'.

Regarding Hindley:

www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/nov/16/ukcrime.sarahhall

Peter Timms, the Methodist minister who counselled her in prison, said her treatment was a "scar on the judicial system".

"I have supported her only because I think she had been treated grossly unfairly in comparison to other life sentence prisoners," he told Sky News. "The reason she wasn't released wasn't because she was dangerous but people were afraid of the press.

"Her part in the business has always been one of complete remorse and complete regret. She's always done everything she can to help the police."

I feel sorry for Maxine Carr as well.
her face pops up alongside murderers on the internet.
All she did was provide a false alibi for someone that she believed to be innocent. Misjudged, foolish but not deserving of being put alongside eg Hindley.
(a whole other topic I know but there are those who think that Huntley might have been framed)

I do, however, feel sorry for Maxine Carr. She wasn't in Soham at the time and genuinely though Ian Huntley was innocent. She has served a prison sentence, changed her identity and the press (and public) should just leave her alone.

As does everyone on this thread who has commented on her. I felt sorry for her at the time.

What point are you trying to make re Christie?

You stated Brady's partner in crime would not have been vilified if he were a gay man.
This is nonsensical given the treatment of gay men if ever involved in crime. And that's setting aside the fact Christie did not have a gay male partner.

So far as Ethel Christie she was one of his victims - what is your point there?

Myra Hindley actively participated in the murder of those children and was every bit as guilty as Brady - she wasn't just turning a blind eye. She deserved to be villified by the press.

Karen Matthews sticks in everyone's mind because she received so much press attention before she was rumbled. I can remember her convincingly crying at the press meeting begging for Shannon to come home. Karen was lazy, selfish a neglectful mother and just a bit thick. She was, however, a great actor.

I do, however, feel sorry for Maxine Carr. She wasn't in Soham at the time and genuinely though Ian Huntley was innocent. She has served a prison sentence, changed her identity and the press (and public) should just leave her alone.

Elendon - no I don't expect it from men but I am familiar with it in the context of the mental disorder that Brady has. Every psychiatric comment released to the press is clear that Brady has a severe and dangerous personality disorder and is completely devoid of empathy. His writings made clear he literally saw no difference between killing a human or an insect. It felt the same to him and was the same morally.

Hindley didn't have that psychopathology so yes, I find her more difficult to understand than him. Not because she was a woman but because she was capable of imagining how scared, horrified, ashamed and panicked their victims would have been as they were abused and murdered. And she still did it.

And Brady is a sadistic psychopath but he's never claimed to be anything else or tried to be released. Myra reinvented herself as a Religious victim in order to try and get released.

In many ways I think Hindley was worse because she campaigned so hard to be freed and kept raising he profile for her own ends. Brady accepted he would die in prison but Hindley wanted to get out and would use any means at her disposal to do so. There's no sliding scale here, Hindley is as bad a second it gets.

Ethel Christie had evidence of physical abuse. So that let's her off. Her husband abused her physically. What about those women who are emotionally abused?

Well I agree she wasn't as bad- but turning a blind eye has a very different meaning-
And you know it!

all three in one town? Is it because there was a supported hostel there or something though?

Just described as "a seaside town". I'm assuming one of those seaside towns which has seen better days but is a bit down at heel now so cheap accommodation available ; in theory off the beaten track; probably per head of population a higher ratio of probation officers and social workers than a metropolitan area whilst being easier to keep tabs on than a rural area.

I'm not sympathising with the actions of Hindley, all I'm saying is she was not as complicit as Brady. What she did was abhorrent, what he did was much worse. Though, she obviously is just as bad as him eh?

It's not laughable.

Take, for example, John Christie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christie_(murderer)

He not only murdered several women (the total number is unknown), but he also sent an innocent man to hang, a man who was illiterate and possibly had special educational needs. I do wonder, if his wife, Ethel, had not been murdered, would she have been the most vilest woman in Britain for turning the other eye. We know she was abused. Is that an excuse? But perhaps I'm also an apologist for Ethel Christie.

Hinckley knew at least one of the vistims and spoke te her mother after The killing, sympathising with her about her missing child. How can anyone defend Hindley on the basis of her sex? I find that chilling.

'Turning a blind eye' is a poor (and grossly inaccurate) phrase for Myra hindleys actions.

Myra Hindly hardly turned a blind eye Myra Hindley quite happliy tried to wriggle herself out of any responsibility that is not turning a blind eyd

Thisjust. It's almost as if you expect such behaviour from men, but when a woman does it, it goes against all humanity.

Piss off Lass. Seriously? Apologist? No one here is an apologist. Many are for male behaviour though.