'Getting Engaged'

Re the gratitude thing - dp does not work full time as a favour to me. I do not breastfeed our baby at night while he sleeps as a favour to him. We decided to raise our family this way, and made choices to facilitate that together.

I have been a single parent and know full well how much easier it is with a partner to help. I am grateful to have a loving committed partner in my life, in the same way that I am grateful to have healthy children and a roof over my head.

I do realise his contribution to my life, and vice versa. What I don't do however is thank him for agreeing to take care of me, or feel in any way beholden.

Man waits years to propose to woman

see, that's the thing. If a woman wants to get married, then she shouldn't have to wait for years . I am all for the traditional engagement, but both partners have an equal role. I think you both discuss your future, and what you want from life and you go from there. I am against ultimatum, and would never say "Propose now or I am leaving", but I would have just left if I had been ready to start a family , and the other one wasn't. I mean, you are talking about a couple, most of the time already living together. It's not that difficult to agree on something that important. You can still have a surprise engagement!

*whether

yoko

Man waits years to propose to woman, who has been on tenterhooks for years because she's not allowed to make a decision about her life/relationship, and she's expected to be grateful and gushing. Then, at the wedding, she stays quiet and laughs at all the men's jokes

I really don't think that's how it works for the most part in this day and age!

In terms of the actual day and the roles in that. The bride would almost certainly have had a very high percentage of input into all of it if not most of it. Without you view that as an equal or not, she certainly isn't normally just a timid bystander.

I would but with everyone asking to see it and I'm not much into jewellery

"Oooh, you got engaged. Can I see the ring?"
"No ring to see here, you should know my views on that"

You can imagine how people would react to that

I bought my husband a briefcase as an engagement gift. If he had wanted a ring I would have bought him one.

Traditionally it might have been about dowries and ownership passing from one man to the next, but I'm certain no one thinks about it in that way any more (unless perhaps you're religious).

I've also seen brides dispense with the speech tradition all together, and make their own. No-one thinks it's odd.

We decided together to get married. In a restaurant, a bit drunk.
We told parents etc the next day. A few days later I told dh I wanted a ring - he hadn't been sure if I would but with everyone asking to see it and I'm not much into jewellery so just fancied something special to wear all the time (before I got my wedding ring).
So I guess we were non-traditional. But at the same time I think there usually needs to be a point where a couple state that they're going to start organising a wedding (don't get me started on long indefinite engagements!)

Thinking about it, I know a couple of women who claimed to be against traditional engagements etc, but would have been deeply offended not to get a ring

All those feminist principles can go out of the window at times

Thinking about it, I know a couple of women who claimed to be against traditional engagements etc, but would have been deeply offended not to get a ring. Poor blokes..

I have seen brides making a speech in quite a few weddings! A couple did it because their husband hated public speaking, the others because they wanted to say something. These were fairly traditional church in white gown + wedding breakfast kind of things.

To clarify, when I say best woman, she was a woman being the groom's best man, not the bride's best woman, hence she was allowed to speak

Me and DP have planned together that we'll get engaged sometime after the new year when he has the spare money for the ring ive chosed myself because its my choice what a random odd thing to try and trivialise and taint something so romantic. If this was AIBU id say YABU.

Yep yoko in 150+ weddings I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I heard the bride/bridesmaids speak. There was a best woman's speech, which was very good, but that's not quite the same.

Oooh I have just remembered that I did actually propose back a couple of weeks afterwards. I bought him a fancy watch and set up a dinner at a restaurant and got down on one knee. I had completely forgotten... Weird. I had enjoyed being proposed to so much that I wanted him to experience the same thing. It was really nice if a little embarrassing and I am sure there were people in the restaurant thinking "poor cow, had to propose to him"

If I had my time again we would have discussed it "shall we get married?" "yes what a fabulous idea!" "let's buy each other expensive presents to show our love". And then a quick do in a registry office a couple of months later and lunch in a pub with our nearest and dearest. That would have made me very happy indeed!!

@Fink: Yeah, the sort of man I would want to marry would not even dream of asking my father for permission to marry me. (But I would not tell them in advance, I'd make this a secret test of character.)

wonder what would happen if someone did NOT buy an engagement ring when they proposed

The answer is as varied as there are couples! Some want a ring, some wants to chose it themselves, some want a tattoo, others nothing at all. Ideally, when people decide to get married, they have an idea of what the other one thinks. If you don't know the values of someone, and their thoughts about traditions (for or against), then you might be a bit hasty about becoming a couple.

I know what you're saying re all the friffery, but getting engaged simply means that you are engaged to be married - just as you would be engaged to start a job in three months' time. That a marriage is planned but has not happened yet.

Yes. And I think that's actually quite sensible - planning it in advance. Less stressful if you plan to have a big wedding, and if you don't, it still makes sense to consider the matter for a while instead of just jumping into it.

Regarding all the traditions attached to it ... well, in the times when marital rape was legal, you'd bet a man would have to beg me on his knees to marry him. (Would probably still have said no)

What I dislike is the social obligation to have a big wedding and "hen do" and whatnot.

Other than that, actual laws that for example give married couples without children a tax advantage over unmarried mothers, are something I get far more angry about when it comes to marriage and the stuff attached.

I have been abundantly clear with everyone I've dated that if they even think that asking my father for permission, or in any way discussing our marriage plans with my father in my absence, is acceptable then they need to seriously re-think their ideas or the relationship stops there. Some of my female friends and relatives have been at the idea that I consider this to be a deal breaker but I honestly cannot see how anyone could want to be in a relationship with someone who, either through dimwitted sheep-like adherence to 'tradition' or because they genuinely think it is a good thing to do, would treat me as a chattel.

I wonder what would happen if someone did NOT buy an engagement ring when they proposed?

Would there be upset?