'Getting Engaged'

Thinking about it more, over the years I've been on MN I have seen loads of posts from women who desperately want a proposal from their other half and get so upset when they haven't proposed.

Or worse still won't propose / marry them.

I find the 'squee I'm engaged' thing ok if I know both parties, but quite a few times I've found I'm supposed to be very excited for someone and I've not even met their other half. Like I should be delighted just at the fact they are getting married and it's the "getting engaged/married" that is the important bit, not the finding a partner with reciprocal love/respect etc. Writing that down makes me sound really grumpy! I promise I pretend to be delighted in person.

I don't mind the "squeee I'm engaged!" thing, but I find it a bit weird when people are already mortgaged up together.
My neighbours collared me by the bins with some "amazing news!"...They are engaged! (Squee! ) flash of the Ring, "he asked me on holiday..!"They live together, in a house they both own...could marriage plans really be such a massive surprise?
My chap has told me he wants to marry me, but knows I'm not ready, so he said he's going to wait for me to propose. And he wants a ring
When I'm ready to be caught, he might get one!

'Why do a couple who may have lived together for years need a night / weekend out with their male or female friends to get pissed, have (insert activity) etc before the big day?'

I agree so much! Its almost as if you're being carted off to prison and being determined to enjoy your last night of freedom!

Yoko, there is a case going through the courts right now, challenging the ban on opposite sex civil partnerships as being unlawful. I really hope they are successful.

I "got engaged" this year OP and I agree with you that the whole concept is a bit strange.

We'd already discussed wanting to get married in the next few years, had discussions over type of wedding and daft things like favours, so I considered us kind of engaged anyway. DP wanted to do the proposal thing with the ring, but did it in a "let's make it official" way rather than grandly bestowing the privilege!

However despite the low key nature of proposal, and the fact DP has so far been the main driver of booking venue etc, I've had so many people reacting as though I've finally caught him, expressing shock at the fact that DP is being involved (and let's not get onto the fact I'm not changing my name... mother).

I don't feel like our relationship has changed, we own a house, have been planning on children etc, nothing is now different but people's reactions to us are and I'm finding it all a bit disconcerting to be honest. (And YES to the speeches at the wedding - I'm paying for half, I'm bloody well going to be saying something!)

I've only read the OP. I agree with you, OP - I also fundamentally don't get why people in relationships that haven't traditionally been freighted with patriarchal 'traditions' would voluntarily embrace them, and actually my gay friends haven't by and large - they have embraced deeply untraditional and egalitarian weddings and civil partnerships without the traditional trappings (and which, by their nature make the whole asking paternal permission/giving the bride away/brides not making speeches guff look extra-reactionary in comparison)..

BUT I recognise that it's not my call, and that even though I think that 'getting engaged' in the context of a longterm, committed relationship is meaningless (and if straight couples had been allowed to enter into civil partnerships, my now-DH and I would have opted for that over marriage), gay couples can and do find embracing some of those traditions legitimising.

DH and I are straight, and only got married because there was a pressing practical issue that marriage resolved. No proposal, no ring, no wedding - we just went down to the registry office with two friends, all wearing ordinary street clothes, and had a boozy lunch afterwards.

I absolutely hate the idea of asking a woman's father for permission to ask her to marry. I also hate the idea of fathers giving their daughters away.

Dh and I made a decision to get married together and then had a really small wedding. ( There's a reason for that but won't go into it now.) No one gave me away.

thatstewie I hadn't heard of that re millennial men and housework/raising children etc, that's depressing interesting. Can you link anything or tell me where to find it?

Haha. Ok. They do deliberately pick the most cringe-worthy people for reality shows though.

Years ago a friend was asked to do a TV show about his wedding. He was promised the earth and how wonderful it would make the couple look, but it gradually dawned on him that they were encouraging some really awful decisions.

(he declined in the end, however some awful decisions remained...)

The idea that getting married/ not getting married are equivalent when you have children completely ignores the law. There is no such thing as a common law marriage in the U.K. If you take time off work to raise kids and only his name is in the mortgage, then you're fucked if he dumps you. You don't qualify for widowed allowances and current changes to universal credit give a hell of a lot of power to men in relationships at the expense of women. This is without addressing the research that is unequivocal that mullenial men spend considerably less time doing housework and caring for the children than their own fathers did.

It's not unsurprising that the idea of weddings being huge romantic gestures ((involving lots of money) are increasing at a time when women's legal rights under the law are being curtailed.

WHats 'don't tell the bride

Basically the bloke organises EVERYTHING. Sometimes it does not meet the bride's expectations.

And what about the hen and stag nights?

Why do a couple who may have lived together for years need a night / weekend out with their male or female friends to get pissed, have (insert activity) etc before the big day?

You'd almost think there was a whole industry built up around it - and the expectations.

If you were to list all the current expectations from engagement to the wedding, there'd be a lot.

WHats 'don't tell the bride'?

datun my point exactly! The woman 'organises' almost the entire wedding and gives the man the odd job (sort out those suits!) and then sits quietly looking pretty on the day

In terms of big weddings, I'm not sure coming at this from a feminist view point is working. The woman will no doubt be controlling everything. And I'd lay money on it, that this is her choice. It's not being imposed by a patriarchal society.

Women gush over the ring (come on, they are so sparkly!)
and men pat each other on the back and take the newly engaged man (what's the word for that? Fiance?) anyway, take the man to the pub to congratulate him.

I think the men are winning on that one, or did I just always miss out on invits for a drink?

No worries yoko

But if we're going down that road...

datun but she gets to do the 'womanly' things like, ooh, flowers and seating plans.

Why are those considered womanly things?