Paris Lees article on toilets in Guardian today

You could be right shiny.

Most people have no idea though, not sure how the idea will float when people realise it will affect them and their daughters. I think the legislation will be in place by then though.

a few months ago any comment that criticised this would have been deleted

Though one reason for this might be that the militant TA agenda is now so mainstream that it doesn't need to fear challenge

At least the comments aren't being deleted, a few months ago any comment that criticised this would have been deleted.

That's it exactly.

We're "all women together", until we're not.

So transwomen's fear of violence from men in bathrooms is legitimate, while women's fear is hysterical.

Biology isn't related to gender AT ALL, unless it's about some non-replicable neuro imaging study that totally shows the ladybrain.

Feminism must include transwomen, because we are all women, exactly the same, but we must not talk about issues like female genital mutilation, because that excludes transwomen.

A transwoman may comment on what it is like to be a woman, but a woman may not comment on what it is like to be a transwoman.

Tramswomen are speaking for trans and for women, yet women are not allowed to comment on trans (unless they parrot the transwomen) and we are increasingly not allowed to comment on women either (lest we offend transwomen)

Brilliantly put.

And I like the typo - do tramswomen self-identify as buses?

That was it, gold star lesbian.

I'd be happy with being a gold star human. I have some way to go on that, mainly on account of my inability to be kind to entitled idiots.

But, I was also staggered when my friend told me that her lesbian book group told her she wasn't a real lesbian because she's had sex with a man. Lesbians who have never been penetrated by a penis are superior, apparently.

Gold star lesbian, I believe that is called. One who has never had sex with a man. I don't believe there is a similar putdown for gay men who have had sex with women prior to coming out.

These days lesbians are told they are bigots for NOT wanting to be penetrated by a penis. As a penis is not a penis on a transwoman...its a lady stick, or clitty, or something equally repulsive.

Its all a bit mental.

That blows my tiny mind.

But, I was also staggered when my friend told me that her lesbian book group told her she wasn't a real lesbian because she's had sex with a man. Lesbians who have never been penetrated by a penis are superior, apparently.

Suspect there are people in all walks of life who are desperate to put others into categories so they can feel superior.

Truscum are people who think dysphoria is an essential component of being trans and anyone who doesn't experience it is fake, “appropriating transness”, a “transtrender”, etc. They very often exclude non-binary and agender people as well.

So...truscum are people who believe that 'born in the wrong body' is an essential part of being trans.

I have yet to come across anyone in real life who believes it is possible to be 'trans' without suffering sex-dysphoria. Makes NO sense at all to me.

Oddly enough, I believe the reason there is so much support for 'trans' matters is because the general public still uses this meaning. Yes, we should make those with dysphoria as comfortable as possible. People do not seem to realise that the push for 'trans-acceptance' excludes the very people we should actually be worrying about.

Oh yes. Actual transsexual people are looked down upon and called truscum by other 'transgender' people.

Did paris's blogfest session ever get put online btw? I can't find the other thread.

truscum? As in True Scum? Really?

It's really frightening.

I want trans-inclusion. I'm as leftie and liberal as they come, I don't want anyone to be discriminated against.

But, this silencing of womens' valid concerns, lack of debate and railroading of the debate is just sinister.

They want to be the hot women, the princesses, the 'real housewives of X' women.

Oh yes, in the early days of my eyes opening around this issue, one of the things that stood out a lot for me was receiving private messages on another site from a trans individual telling me that men would want 'her' more than me as my tits are saggy from breastfeeding and my fanny will be looser than a 'wizards sleeve' after delivering 2 babies. I made the mistake of not making a new account to discuss trans issues so had some private life stuff that they obviously trawled for.

Besides how misogynistic this thinking is..it seems fucking deluded to me. Yes I may not be as 'tight' as a surgically constructed hole is (though not knowing the vagina can easily bounce back over time seems a very...manly way of thinking too) but did they really think that the majority of men, given the choice between a tighter inverted penis, and a real vagina would chose the former? Sad really.

I know 2 transwomen IRL and they both found this hilarious, one almost pissed themselves laughing at the audacity of the whole situation. but this is because the two people I know are not those who delude themselves into thinking they actually ARE female, they are not (or do not seem to be) in it for the fetish...they don't claim that people who don't wish to fuck them are transphobic. and above all, they empathize with women over the 'loo/changing room/whatever' issue. They understand how..if the male areas are scary for other males, having males in female spaces is scary for females too. And so on. But these people...never had a problem in loos and such anyway and think the push for obvious blokes in womens areas is hurting trans people as much as women. They are what is cgharmingly named 'truscum' in trans circles. You know, those horrible people who actually do have dysphoria and do not believe in cotton ceiling or wish to keep their dicks and barge into female spaces...

The trouble seems to be that the TRAs don't want to be normal women. They want to be the hot women, the princesses, the 'real housewives of X' women. They don't want to be the ones doing the washing up, or wiping kids/grandparent's bums or sweeping or peeling the spuds and making sure the kids have a packed lunch and clean pants every day.

They want the rights of being a woman, but not the responsibilities.

(and to be clear, I don't think those things should be the sole responsibility of women, but that is the reality for many (I would actually say most) women - and in any case, they should be part of the responsibility of any parent)

Trojan horse- yes that is it exactly.

Exactly. Tranwomen are worried about male violence, so want to inflict it on women. It's a stupid, circular, illogical argument.

And misogynistic.

And loaded with self interest.

And highly dubious.

If a man identifying as a woman can access previously sex segregated spaces, then surely that makes those spaces less safe for women and transwomen and anyone who identifies as a wo.........Jesus, I am disappearing up my own arse (back hole for anyone who prefers non gender specific genitals)

Who cares about women? What about ME, ME, ME ?!!

That's pretty much Paris Lees attitude to the whole thing.

A lot of the comments were arguing the toss about gender neutral facilities. With people who were sympathetic to the plight of transwomen nonetheless being very concerned over the hoards of men (dubious or otherwise) who would be in there alongside women/children should gender neutral facilities be the norm.
Failing to make the link that if transwomen are allowed in women's facilities, that's exactly what you'll get anyway (trans and fully intact men presenting as male).

Both my comments on BTL have been deleted

Oh, I think Caroline Flint is well aware that she is being watched stalked, threatened and metaphorically spat at by transactivists.

No one wants trans people to feel unsafe.

Most MtT don't look like women, not even the young ones at my university.

A while back, a young woman was raped in the women's loos at the SU owned nightclub. The rapists were never found. Then a MtT SU rep campaigned to make all loos on campus/at the SU nightclub sex neutral.

Now, the rapists almost certainly weren't trans. Although that's debatable because the "trans umbrella" covers such an enormous range of behaviours now. However, a place where a woman had reported a rape is now open to anyone who wishes to use it. Whether that's for the quite reasonable purpose of a MtT wishing to go for a pee or for a rapist to go and hunt for a victim. What they can't be used for it as a place to get away from the persistent dude who won't stop chatting you up despite you telling him to get lost. Or from the dude on the dance floor who won't keep his hands to himself despite you telling him no, in fact, in the second case, it might be seen as you looking for somewhere more private... The same might even be true for men, although I doubt it.

PL wishes to be seen as more womanly than women. Given India Willoughby's performance on WH and their sadface tweets afterwards, it seems to be contagious.

Awful article. Comments under it are encouraging though, not least in that they've been allowed to stand! (or maybe the Deleting and Banning employee is late in to work today)

bring = being