Does having sex with a prostitute constitute rape?

It was sudden because I had to go to work that day and only had a short time to 'do it'!
As anyone in that situation knows you have to 'strike whilst the iron is hot' to maximise chances of success.

And I thought this was a feminist thread but you're defending the man's rights now....

As it was, the clomid did work, thanks for asking, the result is playing happily near me right now......

I also found it uncomfortable to read maggie. Maybe you didn't describe the situation very well though?

Ok so 'sexually assaulting herself' Bertrand

quencher I find yourpost quite uncomfortable reading. Have you ever suffered fertility problems? Do you know how demoralising it is to get a BFN every month and then find out you aren't even ovulating? Then be put on clomid, and be thankful you're finally ovulating and then be told by your husband that he's 'not in the mood'?
Who the fuck are you to tell me I can't ask my husband for sex in that circumstance.

And he did have sex with me, if he'd really not wanted to I'm sure he would have declined. Because conceiving a baby was, actually, more important than him 'being in the mood' at that moment in time.

So if you think his not being in the mood trumps our mutual desire to conceive a child, then, well it's me who finds that 'uncomfortable'.

"If a web cam girl does stuff on camera for a client, penetrating herself would that be rape?"

Not unless she was using a penis attached to a man. Because the legal definition of rape involves a penis.

Interesting question

If a web cam girl does stuff on camera for a client, penetrating herself would that be rape?

And seeing as no physical sexual contact has been made... would that mean she was actually raping herself?

Not being in the mood is different from really not wanting to though, isn't it?

Agree with Marie about sometimes doing it for a husband as a favour.

I do my husband plenty of favours. I'm about to sort out the mess in the kitchen that he left last night after (attempting to) make mayonnaise.

Sometimes he's really up for it and I'm a bit 'meh' but I'll do it for him, because I love him. Not because he demands it, he never would, but because I want to do it for him even though I'm not in the mood.

On what planet would that be rape??????

YY Mariepoppins

But to the idea that men could just as easily have a ONS, that may be true for some men but what about old/disabled/obese/disfigured etc men who might find it hard to do this?

Also, is it possible that some men may feel it's somehow easier to have sex with a prostitute than go through the charade of dating/ on line/ whatever when they may have to pretend to be at least slightly interested in the woman when all they really want is no-strings?

There are 'hook up' sites specifically for no strings sex but I' believe the majority of users are men and the minority of women on it are mostly web cam/escorts appearing to be up for free no strings sex but once the man is interested a price is revealed.

Also BetrandR, according to that definition, plenty of women will have been raped by their DH/DP because their willing said yes even though they weren't keen on it. Or ot was painful (due to a health condition) but wanted to do it for their DH no t because they were pressured into it but because they wanted to do something nice to them. These women might even have initiated sex

Re the free will, I fully agree that we all are affected by our environment and therefore none of us really have free will. That means the prostitutes. And also means the punters who have grown up un a society of male privilege seeing women as less than/there for their pleasure etc.. Just have a quick look at adverts and you will see how this image is constantly pushed.

That means that if women do not have free will, nor do the men who use them!
It will be just as difficult for women to see they can do better than prostitution to find a way out of their problems (money etc etc) than it is for men to change their POV and see women as properly equals to them and as beings that have the choice to say NO to them or not wanting to have sex with anyone (the idea that a prostitute is a nymphomane who enjoys sex all the time is widespread IMO).

Anyway, all that to say that I truly beleive that women has as much free will than men. That's not the issue.

I wouldn't mind someone giving me their POV about the idea I raised before. That using prostitution is rape because of the reasons a men is using a prostitures rather than because of the act or the money exchanged etc... That they could easily get a ONS in a nightclub so the wish of using a prostitute isn't about having sex but about control over the women, which makes it rape iyswim.

A PP said rape wasn't being redefined on this thread, but it clearly is.

If rape = unenjoyable sex then of course prostitute sex is rape.

Glad we sorted that one out after 18 pages!

Little smiley face as in ovulation predictor stick, obvs!

BertrandRussell according to that definition, I have raped (or whatever the female equivalent is) my husband. Trying to conceive, I jumped on him at six in the morning demanding sex as the little smiley face had come up. To put this in context, i hadn't ovulated and was on clomid so even ovulating was a massive deal. We did the do, but afterwards he complained that it had felt weird as he wasn't horny and I'd pressured him in to it. I'd say, tough shit mate you agreed to have a baby with me and I have just ovulated for the first time in months. But technically according to that definition I did (female equivalent of) rape him.

Pretty much every form of sex apart from enjoyable sex done for the ,pleasure of it is rape according to the mumsnet jury

And I agree with pp that this is a pretty good description of non-rapey sex. Every now and then you might have sex to make your partner happy or to conceive, but that's not the norm.

Do you really think it's ok that women are routinely expected to have sex they don't enjoy? Is this expected of men too?

The person being question in this debate is the man making the decision to have sex with a person who wouldn't do it if they weren't in need of money. The men are the problem

Yes, totally.

Pretty much every form of sex apart from enjoyable sex done for the pleasure of it is rape according to the mumsnet jury

What a dystopian idea! That sex should be enjoyable.

I really wonder about people who think feminists are joyless prudes. On the contrary, I think we could solve the whole bloody mess by removing the shaming of women and the orgasm gap (study shows that straight women have less orgasms than gay women or any men). If we all allowed women to have enjoyable, shame-free, safe sex, there would be no need for a sex industry. Well, except for the men who are clearly violent misogynists.

"Pretty much every form of sex apart from enjoyable sex done for the ,pleasure of it is rape according to the mumsnet jury"

Well yes, I think I agree with that. I'm trying to think of any other sort of non rapey sex. I suppose there's the timetabled whether you want to or not sex when you both want to conceive a baby. And sometimes the "oh all right then, love" sex when one of you would much rather be reading a book......
But mostly "enjoyable sex done for pleasure" sums up non rapey sex for me.

Do you also think that anyone from a disadvantaged background could become Alan Sugar if they really wanted to?

This free will debate is a total red herring imo.

Of course prostitutes have free will, although their capacity to make choices may be affected by addiction, learning disabilities, MH issues etc..

However, none of that changes the fact that consent, as a concept, is totally incompatible with being a purchasable commodity. The very nature of consent is such that, in order for it to be genuine, it must be freely given. It is not for sale.

Quencher, I see your point in that there are different consequences for punters/prostitutes

But I fail to see how there is a difference between saying prostitutes are not in control of their actions but punters are.

If we don't, as humans, have free will shouldn't this apply to ALL humans?

Personally I think we do have free will but some habits /patterns can be hard to break. However, if women in certain circumstances (eg poverty, drug addiction or just coming from a family background where it is 'the norm' can break away from prostitution I think it's illogical to say that prostitutes don't have free will!