Does having sex with a prostitute constitute rape?

This is probably ridiculously obvious already to everyone else, but after reading a bunch of "positive" and "negative" real life reviews on that site, I just feel completely disgusted at what prostitutes face, whether they technically consent or not.

It's not just "sex" - it's dozens of bodily acts which our society has normalised and made these men feel they have a right to demand. It's some creep who gets pissed off if they can't stick their tongue down your throat, or is angry if you won't suck them without a condom or do anal or something, or won't let them do oral on you, or feels that you're in any way just doing this for the money.

And fuck forbid you don't come thanks to their glorious "efforts" apparently.

RollerGirl

The state has other laws about what people can buy for money (and the laws should be on the buyers ie the punters).

You are not allowed to pay a surrogate beyond reasonable expenses, you are not allowed to buy blood or bone marrow transfusions, for example. You cannot pay someone to let you hit them without committing assault.

Hermione
I'd rather you didn't get to decide what I do with my body. Just the same way I wouldn't want a man to decide I have to have sex with people for money (I. E. Force me into it)

Certain groups - young, vulnerable, people with certain special needs etc should our protection but I'd rather decide for myself thanks.

I agree that Thai prostitutes would almost certainly be forced, but we're talking about theory and if in theory they consented (as the op asked originally) it's not rape.

I think I'd make a judgement based on all the information available. Mainly considering what they said to me about their consent but I'd also look at other factors like age, id, whether they looked like a vulnerable person (you can usually tell if someone is a on heroine for instance)

My experience and belief is that some people are consenting, you obviously don't believe that so I imagine wed come to different conclusions.

I also think there's a huge number of men being escorts to women (maybe more of an escorting culture than the typical curb pick up of a sex worker) but we don't hear about them as much.

"I think there is something very wrong with people who pay for sex. There is no way it's purely about meeting a physical need"

Agree.

Consent is not a commodity.

Male prostitutes mostly sell themselves to men.
Seeing as female pros also sell themselves to men, this tells us rather a lot about men.

Jesus Christ! That website

I wouldn't go to Dubai either and am boggled that people choose to.

I don't know enough about adult male prositutes to have a view on them, but I'd love to know how coming from an agency and not looking like someone has a drug problem are magical forcefields against exploitation and trafficking.

Why can't we just say that women's bodies aren't for sale? Why must there be an option to buy them to wank into "nicely"?

In Europe, a woman's only hope may well be prostitution.
This works out rather well for men doesn't it.

Adult Thai ladyboys are coerced by socioeconomic factors. Most are sent from the poorest villages to send money back to their family because this is the village's only hope.

Rollergirl7 if you want to find the most statistically likely person to be murdered by a man, welcome yourself to the world of Thailand prostitution.
(This disproportionately includes Thai ladyboys).

smartleatherbag
And with you too. Indeed most people have no idea.

Well Hermione I guess that depends on your perspective. Some people would go to dubai for example and some people find the culture deplorable (talking about the slave trade)

I think there's enough to be done that could mitigate the risks enough to ensure you don't sleep with someone who is unwilling. I.e. I would sleep with a sex workers in Thailand but I would possibly sleep with a sex worker who I came from an agency, didnt look like they had a drug problem, very obviously over age of consent (this would be my main concern so very possibly would ask for id) and was convincing and upfront about their consent.

Do you believe adult male prostitutes are coerced into it?

I believe very very few genuinely want to do it. You'd have to come up with very convincing evidence to persuade me otherwise therefore in the majority of cases it is rape.

Graphista
With you there.

It's an important question OP.
I never saw another thread, but some people think consent can't be bought. That prostitutes are performing sex under duress.

Others think prostitutes are consenting purely by the exchange of money...

Well, the thing about sex for money is you don't get to choose your punt. You don't get to withdraw your consent and you dont often get to choose which sexual acts you perform either.

Not at all. It's a harrowing choice to be a prostitute sometimes. I'm sure it's always a harrowing choice to decide about life support.

Do you honestly believe there's no women who do it for the money? Non who do it to put themselves through college? Dating sites that cater for women wanting sugar daddies then these women go into escorting as they like sex and money?

It's irrelevant also why women are doing it, what's relevant is what the men who have sex with them believe. Rape requires a particular mens rea (unless the victim is under a certain age) and it's down to what the man believes. That's how the footballer got away with it as they had enough doubt to think he could have reasonably belived she was consenting. Yes fucking awful situation for the victim and I'm not sure I believe that he thought she was convincing and that belief was reasonable but IF he did then he's not a rapist.

Clearly some people of this thread have said they don't believe all prostitutes are forced, so it doesn't matter what you think about sex workers you can't say that everyone should believe the same as you.

rollergirl let's not pretend that equal numbers of men and women are punters and sex workers. It's an overwhelmingly male/female split of male punters and female sex workers.

And because as a punter you have no way of knowing who is trafficked, who is desperate and who is Belle de Jour, it makes you reprehensible in my eyes not to feel sick to the stomach at the thought that you might be raping a vulnerable woman.

Consider the following.
1
Him: "Have sex with me or I'll shoot your children"
Her "Yes yes I want to have sex with you (to save my children).
Not consent. Coersion. Rape.

2
Him: "You need money? Have sex with me and you'll get some"
Her: "Well my children will starve without money. Yes I'll have sex with you" Is this coersion and therefore rape? Or true consent?

No, the exchange of sexual services for money constitutes a business transaction. For both parties.

Rollergirl the life support analogy would make sense if your father was on life support and if you didn't "chose" to turn it off you wouldn't get any money to buy your children food. Otherwise not comparable.

Hermoinie

I would have the same opinion if it's a man or woman having sex with a prostitute. I think some men and scum and some women are scum. Sex is irrelevant to me.

Consent and wanting to are different things - consent is making a decision based on all factors, if my father is on life support for instance I might make an informed decision to turn it off, I certainly would rather not but I've decided to and no one is forcing me.

Ordinarily sex workers in theory are not being raped, imo.

If you are arguing that all sex workers are forced, kidnapped, drugged, coerced, tricked, etc then that's that's something to consider. If people have not made a decision to do what they do voluntarily but are being forced then that is rape.

I'd be open to admitting that a lot are forced, and that is a huge issue and needs dealing with, but the theory that every single one is forced is just wrong.

If you made it absolutely impossible for any man anywhere to pay a woman for sex... They still need the money, they still can't get a "proper" job, they still need to pay the rent... they've probably got children to feed... where do they get the money from?

So ... what? We turn away from the issue because where else will they get the money from??

I also struggle with the reasons why in an age where there's tinder and swinging sites and sex parties and dogging and bdsm clubs etc etc a man would want to visit a prostitute. If they just want sex there are many ways to get it without paying a prostitute, I do think the men that use prostitutes like the control/abuse element.

Thanks for the kind messages .
I have a lovely life and family now. I have cptsd, partly from escort work but mainly from the childhood stuff. But I am loved and happy.

I read an absolutely harrowing article about legalised brothels in Germany. They advertise a flat rate including a sausage and a beer. So horrific it's almost laughable.