Can we talk about the football sex abuse scandal?

Is the fact that some of the men have waived anonymity also a factor, I wonder?

It is harder to call someone a liar when you have to look them in the face. Much easier when you don't know who on earth they are.

I suspect that men coming forward are more readily believed than women.

Boogers, I think you are confusing Adam Johnson with Ched Evans.

I do think it's a mixture of things - more awareness of sexual assault, men's football being the highest profile sport there is in the UK, and I do think the fact that the victims were male plays a part. (There is still an undercurrent of homophobia to judgements about paedophilia, a kind of tacit assumption in some quarters that a man abusing a boy is somehow worse than a man abusing a girl because the former is "unnatural". It shouldn't be so, but I think it is).

The issue of leaving kids alone with coaches still goes on - back when DS was tiny (pre-school) he went to a tumble tots club. From 2 1/2 they were expected to go into a class where parents were no longer allowed to sit round the edge of the gym and watch. At 2 1/2! Not suggesting any sexual wrongdoing in the club, but it seemed to me to show a woeful lack of understanding of child development and could, in the hands of the wrong coach, create just the sort of atmosphere of "what happens in the club stays in the club" that does allow abuse to flourish. Neither DS nor I was happy with this, so he left, which was a great shame because he was actually quite promising.

(Incidentally, I thought Rhyl was Ched Evans, now found not guilty. Adam Johnson was the guy who groomed and sexually assaulted an under age child.)

WomanWithAltitude

I bet many of the fans sympathising with the footballers who have come forward are the same people calling Adam Johnson's victim a liar and a slag.

I'm not sure who you're 'many' are, but my husband and 13-year-old son are both season ticket holders for SAFC and we have had many conversations about this, prompting many conversations about bodily autonomy and consent and things beyond. Until early this year my son had an Adam Johnson poster on his wall. His SAFC calendar still has Adam Johnson for April. Don't muddy the waters in describing the events that happened in that Premier Inn in Rhyl with the descriptions that have been described by the players that have so far come forward.

These are people. Real life, flesh and blood people, with red blood and feelings and all that. Does it really matter what sex it applies to? My son going to football? My daughter going to dance class? It applies to them both. They both want to do well, they both want to excel, they both want to be footballers and dancers. Their tutor has exclusive access to them and tells them they could go far, but they need to make their coach happy by doing, well, read the court reports.

My argument is that this is the first step in exposing abuse in sports from people who are in a position of trust. It takes a brave person to make the first step.

Boys, girls, women, men, there is help there.

The recent report on how the Met police treats reports of child sex abuse is depressing - will try to read it properly over the weekend, but will be interesting to see if there is any evidence that male and female complainants are treated equally

a male footballer opens up about abuse instantly taken seriously (as it should be) however when a current footballer is revealed to have groomed and assaulted a 14 year old people were lining up to defend him and revile her, and his club knew and helped cover up

This is a good point. I bet many of the fans sympathising with the footballers who have come forward are the same people calling Adam Johnson's victim a liar and a slag.

Like it or not, there are double standards in how victims of each gender are treated. That's not to diminish how brave the footballers have been, or what they suffered, but the idea that a famous male footballer will get the same treatment in the court of public opinion as a woman or girl who reports abuse or rape is just not true.

Devi

I hope that the answer is that post-Saville and Rotherham we have a better understanding of child sex abuse. Time will tell

I don't think it is appropriate, however, to speculate what may have led to someone committing suicide

SoFeckingCross what makes a scandal a scandal? What makes an outrage an outrage?

I actually agree with the implication of your post that the status of the people that have come forward has an impact on the way the media has picked up on it, and to a degree I agree. If Steph Houghton had said her coach did this to her I'm not sure it would have received the same media attention, and I'm very uncomfortable with that.

The people putting forward their story to the worldwide media takes a tremendous amount of courage. I reiterate, the NSPCC is open to men, women, boys and girls.

Boogers no-one is denying that the first 4 men have been incredibly brave.

But questioning if this is been taken so seriously is not hysteria, as I said it's a hope that finally child sex abuse is been taken seriously, but through experience wondering if this is actually the case.

And in raising this issue within sporting circles it might encourage people who have been, or who are being, abused to realise that this is not normal, this is not good, and that the people who are doing this are not acting within your best interests. If it takes one male retired footballer to go public and say 'this happened to me' for the avalanche of sexual abuse to fall, then so be it.

I personally think the four men who have come forward to talk in the press about their abuse are incredibly brave.

Oh, and by the way, I am a survivor of sexual abuse. Repeatedly raped by my cousin and his friend, I'm still here, living, surviving.

In the UK we have a law whereby victims of sex assaults, male or female, are entitled to anonymity for life.

The people who have come out in recent days to say that they were abused by their coaches is the tip of the iceberg. Coaches are in a position of advantage and manipulation and coercion, nurturing God-given talent and ambition from puberty. Four men who were top level professional footballers have spoken out to say they were abused, and it comes down to a hysteria that "THEY'RE MEN, THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF IT WERE WOMEN INVOLVED!!!!!!".

Actually, yes it would. If Rebecca Adlington or Ellie Simmonds or Beth Tweddle or Jess Ennis said that this had happened to them it would be big news. That four brave men have come to the media and said that they were abused by people who were in a position of trust, to me, speaks volumes.

It has already been proven that these men speaking out has led to calls to the NSPCC line, and that line is available for men and women, boys and girls, young and old.

Devi

Sadly I did wonder the same things, is this been taken so seriously because of the sex of the reporters and the involvement of football.

Or hopefully is it a sign that historical child sex abuse is finally being seriously.

Though as someone pointed out (on the sadly side) a male footballer opens up about abuse instantly taken seriously (as it should be) however when a current footballer is revealed to have groomed and assaulted a 14 year old people were lining up to defend him and revile her, and his club knew and helped cover up...............

Yes, unfortunately I think you are right, Devi.

More reports this morning - this is going to get bigger and bigger.
I have the same feeling as I did when things emerged about Saville not that long after he had that huge funeral and his life had been celebrated so hugely

I am a bit surprised it's come out, more nationally, in football rather than my own preferred sport, pro road cycling. The economics, situations and dynamics there would lead to abuse of young sportsmen/women pretty much nailed on, I'd think. Suspect it's only a matter of time.
Am too sorry to know of this Devi - and can obv see why you'd question the gender basis of the high profile reporting.
IF I'm reading it right, I'd agree there is so much more 'shock value' that man abuses boy than man abuses girl. It presents as even more 'unnatural', esp when the man in question is demonstrably hetro to the outside world. And the fact it is the 'national game' projects it even further.

Yes, Gary Speed. Didn't even think of that til now.

Hope you're OK, Devi

Devi
By all means have the thread taken down if it is too personal for you.

You are asking important questions though.
I think that it is a combination of things: heightened awareness (both by victims and authorities), changes of what is seen as acceptable, yes, I think it is significant that the vast majority of the 'football' victims will have been boys etc.
I hate that the majority of people who volunteer as coaches/Scout leaders or similar activities for kids who have NOT perpetrated any crime will have to prove themselves innocent I suspect going forward. But I don't see any other way to try and safeguards kids.

Devi,

If you feel that you don't want the thread to continue, then report it and MNHQ will delete it. Or you can hide it and namechange if you like. I'm sorry that this happened to you. It was not your fault.

Like you say, it is at the same time an awful subject but yet very important that the secrecy around it is taken away. I feel very sorry for everyone involved.

Devi

Devi

I do think it's changed in the wake of saville, Clifford etc.

And an element of football being the "national game" - I suspect an abuse scandal in table tennis, say, wouldn't have been so reported.

People are taking this issue much more seriously than if the victims were girls!! The level of support shown to the male victims here is really unprecedented! Girls and women deserve that too!!! With girls and women there is always that underlying message....oh well, shit happens!! With boys it is.....this is evil and unlawful, let's get together to stamp it out!