Can we talk about the football sex abuse scandal?

*brave AND courageous

I have nothing but sympathy for the brave men who came forward about this. It takes an incredible amount of courage and I will be following what happens in the hope that they and any other victims get the help and justice they deserve.

However, Destiny summed it up for me. The contrast in public opinion when a male victim speaks out compared to when a female victim speaks out is stark. I have not seen or heard anyone say that the victims in this case are doing it for the money, that they must have consented but regretted it afterwards, that this is a witch hunt, why didn't they come forward sooner, people revealing their identities on Twitter etc. It doesn't sit right with me that female victims are treated with such contempt yet male victims are treated as brave as courageous. ALL victims are brave and courageous regardless of who or what they are.

The BBC has an article on Facebook presently about Bristowe being dropped by Sky over his comments. I've read a fair few comments made by members of the public on the story and I haven't yet seen a single one suggesting that what Bristowe said was just banter, like there have been about rape apologists making comments like this about women victims, no one has mentioned that this is a witch hunt, that the complainants are just in it for the money or lying.

I believe all the complainants who have come forward. The difference in how they are perceived by the public is stark. And the only real difference is the sex of the complainants.

Just came onto post link about Bristow. Such an easy thing to say but no understanding of how abuse affects pp

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/38139647

Ugh, Bristow.

Agreed Destiny. And that is, weirdly, a symptom of patriarchal essentialism. Men are assumed to be tough and incapable of suffering violation, so their abuse is denied. There is also the issue of women who abuse as well - though that's a whole different debate.

These poor men have suffered so much, but I hope something good comes out of all this.

Oh my God, Eric Bristow on twitter right now: The footballers should have gone back and 'sorted out' the 'poofs' when they were older, darts players would have. Darts players are tougher than footballers. He bets rugby players didn't have this trouble.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. I can't really articulate my disgust at his attitude.

I wonder if these cases will prompt a lot more men to come forward and talk about sexual abuse they experienced when they were young, as happened after Savile's victims started to come forward?

I agree there is a lot more sexual violence towards men than most pp realise and especially boys and young men.

Kind's post did remind me of a shocking comment a fellow student made back when I was at university in the 80s: "Of course I was buggered at . We all were." The most chilling thing was how utterly matter-of-fact he was about it.

I do not think the public as a whole realise how many men get raped by other men.

Yes, I think that's true, but still more women are raped by men. Rapists rape irrespective of sex of their victim because rape is about control/anger rather than sex.

I too agree with Destiny - it is quite striking, the difference in reporting compared to, say, Rotherham is quite striking

IMO, it is also due to the fact that youth football is seen as quite 'macho' and an environment that parents want their children to spend time in, it's overall viewed as a positive thing (as opposed to those 'troubled' girls in Rotherham who 'had it coming'... ).

It's hideous, either way, of course

I wasn't protecting him as it happens! Sometimes I've noticed how quickly a Mumsnet post comes up on a Google search if you put a name like that.

I agree with Destiny. Only the other day I saw yet another report that the police had failed a child in yet another case, having decided she 'was street wise'.

And yes, I totally agree with Destiny's post. It's notable how little smearing of the victims had taken place.

It's good that this is the case, but wouldn't it be nice if this were replicated next time women report male abuse?

There is a historic case about H the photographer in France having raped four little teenage girls, but somehow that horribly seems no surprise these days.

I don't know why you've protected him by anonymising it? Name the fucker - David Hamilton. We shouldn't be afraid to name rapists for what they are, and I think it's powerful when we do so.

Absolutely Destiny. Spot on post.

I would add. We don't disbelieve them either when they make the 'allegations'. We don't say they were asking for it as 13/14 year olds.

Now the inquiry is being broadened out to include other clubs I'm noticing that no one is describing it as a ' witch hunt ', or are questioning the motives of the men coming forward. They aren't being accused of just doing it for the money or questioned as to why they didn't say anything before. Instead they are being commended for being brave. Yes they are brave. But the contrast with how the female victims of high profile abusers have been treated at times is striking.

I think people are surprised that it it is happening in a male sporting environment, rather than with priests, choirmasters etc. This may be because of thinking of footballers as being heterosexual, attractive and with access to lots of women.

There is a historic case about H the photographer in France having raped four little teenage girls, but somehow that horribly seems no surprise these days.

I have a feeling many male/boy rape victims never tell anyone in case anyone thinks they are gay, or because they blame themselves, so I hope this helps them not be ashamed to in the future.

I do not think the public as a whole realise how many men get raped by other men. I was very surprised to read this for example.
www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

Devi
Boogers

Agreed WWA.

Yy WWA.

I think it is possible to discuss how the media and the public treat the cases without buying into or promoting the idea that there is a hierarchy of victims or perpetrators.

We've already agreed that, I think. No one on the thread has argued otherwise.

I was responding to the OP's original question. Sorry I spoke.

I think we all need to agree that all sexual abuse - whether that's men abusing girls, men abusing boys, women abusing boys or women abusing girls - has absolute parity in terms of moral abhorrence.

Of course we should also bring a political perspective to the issue - noting, as WomanWithAttitude points out, that it is, in a general sense, a gendered one. The preponderance of abusers are male and victims female. That does not mean any one victim is one iota less deserving of our sympathy and undivided attention; and neither does it imply any one perpetrator is one iota less deserving of our condemnation.