Mixed sex wards and trans women.

If you were accessing medical help and didn't disclose your full medical, then I'd assume you were unbelievably fucking stupid. Surely no one is actually that stupid?

I was a receptionist in a walk-in clinic at one point, and had to get patients to fill in an extensive medical form. The number of people who happily left out vital information was scary. In a couple of cases it could have proved fatal (eg incompatible medication) and it was just chance, or in one case an observant family member, that we found out in time. I wonder how many more we never found out about. Presumably they all survived or we'd have heard about it... but yes, people are that stupid. Especially if they're ill and/or in pain and not thinking straight.

HermioneWeasley "pink if you don't think what happened to Elendon is horrific then you have zero compassion and empathy for women.

I won't calm down about protecting women's rights, but thanks for the patronising attempt."

I have empathy for humans, why would I have more or less empathy for my own gender?

It's so-called "feminists" like you that give us all a bad name with your despicable attitude. How can you even think something like "Male socialisation doesn't end even if they're castrated" is even remotely appropriate to say?

Kennington
"Calm down kitty cat.
What sort of response is that? I would expect from a completely sexist male. " It's a response any normal human being would have to such a horrible comment.

*Ego
*
That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I hope you're better now.

As you said though, the private facilities were nicer, which poses an issue of unfairness. I'm not saying I have a better solution though, just commenting. Personally, I wish that nobody had to share in hospitals, but that's unrealistic!

ego - I had sort of the reverse experience of moving beds when I was in hospital: I was initially put into a side room, as it was the only bed available, then was woken at about 2am to be moved out because someone had been admitted who wanted to pay for the side room so I had to shift out. Obviously I knew that there was the chance I would need to move, but it was incredibly disconcerting to be moved in a groggy, just got to sleep state. It must have been even worse to just wake up elsewhere. As with so many medical things, proper communication is key to all this.

So - as someone who is trans and has had NHS routine surgery, I can offer my experience - and my personal feelings - from my perspective.

I had skin cancer - and an operation to remove it. I woke up in the female area. At no point did I ask about where I would be and I wasn't told.

I will be honest and say I felt uncomfortable. You're not at your best after an operation and personally I just wanted to 'not be noticed' nor engage in any conversation - although the lady next to me did have a chat.

I then fell asleep and was surprised to wake up in my own room. Again - I wasn't told why and I didn't ask. I assumed it was because I was trans. Maybe something had been said.

TBH, it was great for me. No one looked at me, no one bothered me. I was not standing out. I would not want to be on a male ward as I would have felt very uncomfortable - and I might have made women feel uncomfortable on a female ward - plus I felt very self conscious.

I also had my own TV, plenty of space and own toilet. So a bit of privacy.

No one told me why I'd been moved - there was no discussion. I do wonder what would have happened if no rooms had been available or if someone with greater clinical need had needed it.

I certainly didn't object to being moved to my own room. But I would have been very uncomfortable if I had been moved to a male ward - as I feel I would have been the centre of attention. I don't think anything untoward would have happened - but there are some men who have an issue with trans women.

As far as the NHS in the future - I know that they need to know that I am trans. Apparently I still have a prostate gland - I have had surgery but the surgeon kept it in. I also am eligible for mammograms - HRT does increase the risk of breast cancer.

Nobody seems to oppose [single sex wards] and it's become a requirement in pretty much all hospitals.

This in particular is bizarre. When you actually start work you'll realise it's not just that 'nobody seems to oppose' single sex wards, but that they are actually required by the regulator and all hospitals have to comply. The only areas where mixed sex wards are allowed are where it can be justified due to clinical need e.g. intensive care (and believe me, none of the male patients in ICU/HDU pose a danger).

In all other ward areas there are very strict rules and all breaches of the single sex accommodation rules must be reported.

I also agree with pp who said the op sounds very young and not well informed about what actually happens on hospital wards. I have never heard of a female nurse refusing to care for a patient because they had a penis 'for religious reasons'. It may possibly happen somewhere, but if it does it is extremely rare.

The examples in the op aren't great....

An XX woman (trans or not) who is having a hysterectomy should absolutely be on a female ward.

Why? Because she is being treated by gynaecologists. How many gyne consultants do you find on male wards? None.

When you are having major surgery, clinical safety comes before feelz. A transman may feel uncomfortable on a female gyne ward, but at least they are guaranteed to he seen each day by a consultant in the appropriate specialty. There is masses of evidence showing that patients who sleep on wards outside their specialty have worse outcomes. They are more likely to die.

Similarly, an XY man who is in hospital for a urology procedure should be on a male ward. No question at all.

The tricky cases are the ones where people are in hospital for conditions that aren't sex related... However, I still feel that people should be in a ward appropriate to their physical sex, not their assumed 'gender'.

Calm down kitty cat.
What sort of response is that? I would expect from a completely sexist male.
Kindness towards all is the way forward but sex segregated wards is obviously important and much more safe for women.

Oh and afterwards I was told I'd been too stoic and should have made more fuss - I remain unconvinced that they'd have taken me any more seriously if I had.

That'd probably been treated as proof that you are "hysteric", "shrill" and so on and so forth, and gotten you taken even less seriously.

We can't win this game.

Fine by you is it Pink?
OK....

pink if you don't think what happened to Elendon is horrific then you have zero compassion and empathy for women.

I won't calm down about protecting women's rights, but thanks for the patronising attempt.

HermioneWeasley "elendon that is a horrific story and a prime example of why we need to keep sex segregated wards. Male socialisation doesn't end even if they're castrated."

Calm down there kitty cat.

stewie since some TW think they have a menstrual cycle yes I think some might well be that stupid/delusional

Or delusional?

Further up there is a post suggesting that doctors don't need to be informed if a patient is trans. If you were accessing medical help and didn't disclose your full medical, then I'd assume you were unbelievably fucking stupid. Surely no one is actually that stupid?

NoMudNoLotus I have a friend to whom precisely the thing of being sectioned and having a transwoman in the ward happened, so I am a bit miffed you are dismissing it as pie in the sky. Transwoman sat around with short skirt and visible penis. Friend felt unsafe not least as there were no locks on toilets or showers. Transwoman patient was greeted as old friend by staff and when she complained she was dismissed on the grounds that they knew the person and they were fine.
So please, please, PLEASE don't say this kind of thing would never happen because it is.
(And if it would never happen where you have worked then good, excellent, but please don't insist that other people can't be experiencing it.)

It doesn't surprise me MostlyHet - I had a copper coil put in incorrectly and I was told I was exaggerating for a few weeks despite the fact that I fainted a number of times. It turns out it had perforated my uterus hence me nearly vomiting with pain, but literally until the moment they identified it I was treated as though I was hysterical (quite ironically)

Oh and afterwards I was told I'd been too stoic and should have made more fuss - I remain unconvinced that they'd have taken me any more seriously if I had.

There's a long tgread somewhere here at the moment (chat? health?) about women's experiences of side effects with the mirena coil and HCPs refusing to take it out - with at least half a dozen women reporting that they were reduced to pulling it out themselves. Can you imagine men being treated that way?

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest

Skimmed too conclusion. Women experience more pain, report it more as a result and get treated worse than men. Depressing indeed.

It's a depressing read: Journal of Law, Medicine and Ethics

My mother has no capacity following a severe stroke, however one thing she could and did make plain, she did not want male carers.
If a carer identified as female, but was biologically male, and my mother did not realise, would it have been fair for my mother to receive intimate care from this carer ? I personally don't think it would be fair on my mother at all.
I am slowly becoming aware of the complex issues.

That is so awful Elendon - I'm so sorry that you went through that at an already difficult time.

I certainly agree that women get treated differently to men in similar circumstances - I've seen studies previously that showed differences in doctor response to men and women reporting pain. Unsurprisingly, women reporting pain were more likely to be told to "wait it out" or believed to be exaggerating - it was linked to the number of heart attacks that were missed in women because doctors thought they were being melodramatic.

Funnily enough, when I was reading some of those quotes throughout the report I was thinking "That's nothing to do with being trans, that's just below-par service", and many of us can give similar examples of being refused treatment, disbelieved, patronised, ignored etc etc by HCP