Can we discuss the selfie troll dad?

To an extent it's shaming particularly teenage girls for posting selfies of this kind without really looking into why many may post them (I don't think most of them are even "sexy" anyway unless girls are viewed as trying to be "sexy" as default). Yes, a boy or man in some of those poses is seen as ridiculous, but then focus should be on why that is and what it says about how girls are viewed, I think.

I think this can be counterpoised with this

I'm not much of a selfie taker myself but unsurprisingly know girls who post them regularly, they're not doing it for the approval of boys, they're doing it for friends and because they want to. Though again I understand this is within the context of a society which values us primarily for our looks so it isn't as simple as that.

How are girls viewed and how does this tally with how they view themselves and represent themselves?

That's all about social structure and individual agency or free will and why girls do what they do and what the overt or covert penalties are for conforming or not conforming and how this shapes behaviour.

I agree that it is not simplistically generational either, although when I work with young people (mainly girls) and they find out I do not do social media they are both horrified and inspired. I find that many would like to opt out of social media, but find the penalties of ostracisation too high.

Seachangeshell true but I think most teenagers probably want the approval of friends. It's not something I specifically think about but I suppose if asked I'd say I wanted approval from friends, though as we're close I don't think of it in those terms. There is a lot of insecurity about our looks and I'm far from immune from it, I feel almost guilty for it but it's difficult to avoid. On the whole though I've reached a position where I'm generally happy with myself and feel confident, and can keep social media at relative arms length (I think). The obsession with looks says a lot about how early we realise this is how we're primarily judged and valued. I'm also definitely not in any cool crowd but luckily at my school we all get on pretty well

In terms of selfies as I said it's not something I do but am struggling to find the balance between discussing why so many girls feel the need to take them and not judging or shaming, especially when many girls don't do it for boys.

Spartacus while it is a generational thing it's certainly not all my age who do this kind of thing - I've barely taken any selfies and am too desperate to eat to take photos of food I order I'm certainly not the only one of my age who doesn't either. I do social media but more to chat with people I know and out of habit.

I think this instance is a joke between them from what I can tell (and actually as Lass says I did think when I first saw this that gaining followers on Instagram/getting coverage could have been in mind) but still sits uncomfortably with me. To an extent it's shaming particularly teenage girls for posting selfies of this kind without really looking into why many may post them (I don't think most of them are even "sexy" anyway unless girls are viewed as trying to be "sexy" as default). Yes, a boy or man in some of those poses is seen as ridiculous, but then focus should be on why that is and what it says about how girls are viewed, I think.

I agree with a lot of what you say Amy. Perhaps they aren't doing it for the approval of boys, but they do it to get the approval of their friends. I'm just glad social media wasn't around when I was a teenager. I wasn't too cute when I was and wasn't in the cool crowd at all! Teenage girls must feel even more insecure about their looks than we did. This obsession with the way they look is much worse nowadays.
Aside from that isn't it just an immense waste of time taking these kind of selfies. Hours to get the make up just right, practise posing in front of the mirror, messing about with filters and then checking how many likes she gets on Facebook. So that she can feel good about herself if she gets loads of likes or shit if she doesn't. She could be wasting time doing other stuff like, I dunno, reading.

Not saying you do but I don't understand why you think they're a bad idea

Honestly, for me it's a generational thing, I think. I just don't understand it. See, I was born in the era when having a camera was a big thing and film and processing cost so much you rarely took pictures. Hell, I remember the advent of colour film! But then, I don't do any social media and nor does my DP. We are the ones you see in restaurants laughing as others take photos of their meals.

if it is a joke between them (rather than him shaming her) then I'd be leading him on a merry dance ...

Much of what goes on in the internet and social media is a mystery (irrelevance) to me but to me this looks like a calculated effort by both of them to be an (15 minute) Internet sensation.

When these things happen organically and genuinely they can be funny, moving , even inspiring. This just looks cynical and calculated.

Seachangeshell confidence in terms of looks and our bodies is definitely an issue for teenage girls. I'm not much of a selfie taker myself but unsurprisingly know girls who post them regularly, they're not doing it for the approval of boys, they're doing it for friends and because they want to. Though again I understand this is within the context of a society which values us primarily for our looks so it isn't as simple as that. I'm just uncomfortable with girls being judged for posting selfies, like the girl here whose father is mocking hers, it seems like they're being deemed sexualised or for male attention just because girls are posting them. Which to me suggests in itself society views girls and women in this way primarily, sexualising something not intended to be sexual (she's just posting what she'd probably see as fun, posed photos).

It seems like nothing other than a laugh between him and his daughter which they shared publicly.

nor anything wrong with what she's doing.

Nothing particularly wrong, but as a feminist, I'm surprised you would say there is nothing wrong with what amounts to extreme vanity and a desperation or at least strong desire to have your looks approved. As you know I would not call myself a feminist, but even I can see the dangers of this whole selfie/instagram culture.

I think you got it just right with your final paragraph Amy. And most teenagers are not that confident really, even if they want people to think they are.

I find this pretty unpleasant. I suppose in a way I'm glad the daughter doesn't have an issue with it, as it means it's not upsetting her, but the message it's sending is a negative one and quite shaming. As has been said maybe if he did one as a joke just sent to her it could be funny.

ittooshallpass what do you mean "selfies aren't a great idea"? I don't see why the daughter in question shouldn't be posting selfies nor anything wrong with what she's doing. Why would you not want your daughter posting selfies? I think this is something people look down on as they see it as something mainly done by teenage girls (even though I see boys and adults doing it too). Not saying you do but I don't understand why you think they're a bad idea.

I can see issues with selfies if particularly girls feel we need to post them to be seen as attractive enough or to validate ourselves as being what society expects of us, worth being looks, but if they're being posted out of choice and to express confidence I can't see an issue, shaming girls for it is far more damaging.

M0stlyHet and YetAnother I completely agree with the both of you. On the face of it, maybe one picture would be taking the piss. But picture after picture after picture posted online for all the world to see is tantamount to bullying.
And it smacks of "putting her in her place" to me tbph.

For me it entirely depends why this girl feels the need to post selfies - is it because she feels empowered and recognising and embracing her own beauty, is it to highlight sexism, or is it because she's so conditioned by a patriarchal culture and insecure in herself that she thinks she's only pretty if someone else (ie people online) reinforces that for her?

Thinking deeper into it, if it's the latter, could the dad be doing it to highlight how stupid and ridiculous a patriarchal society is and how sexist the world is - much the same as Jim Hines does?

Well if she approves then the joke is on him :)

i think it's funny , and I also read she enourages him and uses his page to promote her own instagram page

He's a bully. One photo maaaaybe ... or many in private (sent to her only, and in jest).... but many and publicly? No way (if that's how it happened).

When Jim Hines does this to take the piss out of sexist book covers it's funny, and makes a serious social point in a witty way.

In stark contrast, this dad, by singling out his daughter in particular, is, I think, engaging in a form of online bullying. I doubt his motives are exposing the way women internalise misogyny and copy the tropes of a sexist media. I think it's far more about him trying to control what his daughter does online by shaming her, because he is uncomfortable about the pictures she posts. If I was his daughter, I'd be going no-contact.

I thought they were funny too.

Maybe the anger is out of embarrassment? Perhaps they've just realised how ridiculous they all look? I hope to god my DD never gets into posting selfies.

I don't have a problem with troll dad. I think he's done a really good job in getting the message out there that selfies aren't a great idea.