Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

The point of course being that it already does happen and enacting self identification laws will only make it easier for that type of man to have easy access to their prey. This isn't rocket science.

Shiny, its poor form, but I can recommend using AS here as there are enormous inconsistencies in story on almost every thread.

what a revolting post allpartoftheplan

Allpart I don't believe for one second that you are a biologically female survivor of sexual violence. I'm not going to engage with you any further.

I'm with you ...

not going to happen any more than it does already

Wrong again.

This is what happens when the law is changed.

www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Cross-dresser-branded-high-risk-women/story-16994889-detail/story.html

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/bullring-toilet-pervert-who-wore-154191

www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/local-news/97436/69-year-old-exposed-himself-to.html

www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2011/10/cross-dressing_sex_predator_se.html

www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2003/11/27/national/man-caves-in-to-voyeuristic-needs/

www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Man-Dressed-as-Woman-Spies-Into-Mall-Bathroom-Stall-in-Virginia-Police-Say-332934761.html

www.sptimes.com/News/92599/Pasco/Cross_dressing_man_se.shtml

fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/02/man-in-barbie-costume-attacks-woman-in-bathroom/

ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dressing-man-secretly-videotaped-women-in-macys-bathroom/

www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Secret-Recording-Store-Mall-Antelope-Valley-Palmdale-Restroom-207541101.html

www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Police-Man-in-bra-and-wig-found-in-women-s-3414089.php

Allpart I don't believe for one second that you are a biologically female survivor of sexual violence. I'm not going to engage with you any further.

And if he genuinely identifies as a woman and feels he should be there and you are polite to him he'll probably just say either "actually I identify as a woman and have every right to be here, but I understand you are uncomfortable so I'll wait/use that cubicle/go in the men's" or if he's straight and male "oh sorry love, my mistake". The law doesn't mean you can't check someone made a mistake or look after yourself if you feel uncomfortable.

Datun noooooooo dear. If someone is just a dirty peeping tom, they're already doing it. No law will stop them, the law already says they can't do that. If someone is in a changing room staring at you, male or female, you do now and always will have the right to tell them to fuck off and report it to the police. 🙄 Why is this so hard to understand?? Think of all the men in your life, your dad, uncles, brothers, work colleagues, friends, etc. These are men. Among them are going to be a few closeted freaky ones who maybe have snuck a look at someone or who have pushed a woman further than she wanted to go, sad fact but true. Those guys are not going to suddenly march into a changing room announcing they're a woman and sit there jacking off whilst you clutch your pearls and fumble for your towel. It's not going to happen any more than it does already. 🙄

Datun - I think when people see rank misogyny coming from women, they tend to think it's due to ignorance and a sense of them not being bothered and perhaps a passive acceptance of ' that's just how things are'. When it comes from men, I think people see it as something more deliberate attached to an agenda and a strong sense of superiority.

Yes, you are quite right although I do think that some women are invested in misogyny as much as men...

I was / am making no assumptions about the sex of the poster in question, though.

Because the change in the law will mean that he has a perfect right to be there if he claims to identify as a woman.

And the change in criteria for identifying as a woman means you don't have to have 'socially or medically transitioned'. You can be the biggest, hairiest, most tattooed biker, with I'm a rapist etched on your forehead, and as long as you say you're a woman, you're in.

If you challenge that, and it went to a tribunal, you would lose. Nowhere in the legislation does it say you have to look and act a certain way. You can look and act how you like, as long as you identify as woman.

Do you seriously think all that this legislation says if you identify as a woman, you must wear this, say that and act a certain way. Of course not, because that is discriminatory.

If a hairy biker dude does ever follow you in to the changing room, here's an idea, you could say "excuse me I think you're in the wrong room"

No, we can't. Because the change in the law will mean that he has a perfect right to be there if he claims to identify as a woman. As usual on these threads, the person shouting "prejudice" doesn't actually understand what the change in the law will mean.

He's already looking, no law is going to change that.

Bloody hell, this is difficult. He is not looking at you if you is not allowed in there. If he is allowed in there, he is perfectly entitled to look at you, stare you, and you challenging it will be impossible. It will be discriminatory.

yet

I knew that would get noticed. I was going to add that the sentiment is the same, because it is. But I let it stand.

I think when people see rank misogyny coming from women, they tend to think it's due to ignorance and a sense of them not being bothered and perhaps a passive acceptance of ' that's just how things are'. When it comes from men, I think people see it as something more deliberate attached to an agenda and a strong sense of superiority.

No you are saying there's going to be a rise in crime because of an inclusive law. My argument is any law isn't going to stop someone who wants to break it. "If you let him in the bathroom he's going to rape me!" No, if he wants to rape you in the bathroom he'll be following you in there whether there's a law or not. "He'll look at me!" He's already looking, no law is going to change that. The only change will be that people who genuinely need inclusivity and want to use the bathroom they identify with will be able to do so. Creeps and rapists will always exist and do what they do with or without any laws.

I was being sarcastic, but never mind. :) Whoooosh! as they say.

all

I don't know if you're merely uninformed or just being obtuse. Please do some reading.

If people are going to commit crimes, despite laws to help prevent them, you may as well just abandon all laws. It's a spurious argument.

Sigh.

Spartacus and Datun no, it works both ways, I'm using boys as an example because that's what all this silly squawking is about but if a girl identifies as a boy and wants to use the boys changing room and play football then tough luck if the boys don't like it too. It's 2016, not 1916, it's about time everyone got over all this and just let people be. 🙄

Datun

but if a boy genuinely identifies as female then tough luck, get over it, he's on the girl's team, stick up a curtain and off you trot.

How would that sound if a man wrote it?*

Exactly the same as written above? ???

There we go, Buck Angel, the trans man who still has a vagina so he's coming to a changing room near you soon. Run away!!!! The sky is falling the sky is falling!

Datun I think you make a good point if it were just hormone balance it should work both ways.. wasn't there a case recently of a transman finishing relatively highly in a professional sports event? I remember reading about it on here. I'm trying to remain open minded to it but if this particular transman were the norm then surely we'd see more transmen involved in male sports competitively.

I know some trans men and women and they are the least predatory people you will find, they are the victims if anything! The guys who are a serious risk to women, who are out to rape you are already doing it. They are the ones in nightclubs watching who is too drunk to fight back. They are the ones following line joggers at night. They are the husbands with access to their wife victims at home whilst they put on a perfect act to the outside world. They are the ones who are already doing exactly what you're scared of and they'll keep on doing it regardless of any laws. If they cared for laws they wouldn't be rapists! They are the ones who since the dawn of time have always followed women into a public loo. They're not all going to suddenly start now after years of good behaviour because of a law! That's ridiculous! Random heterosexual men are not going to wander in claiming they feel like a woman then raping you, it's not going to happen any more than it already does now. 🙄 Look up a man called Buck Angel. He is a trans porn star and activist. He has a vagina. Which changing room would you like him to use? He has a vagina so... the ladies'? And sports, he can't play rugby no, I mean he has a vagina! Please do let me know when you have that conversation with him, I'd love to watch it! You are at no further risk from using a changing room after the law than you were 10 years ago. In fact genuine trans women have been using female facilities right next to you your entire life and you've never known, because they look like women! That's the point! If a hairy biker dude does ever follow you in to the changing room, here's an idea, you could say "excuse me I think you're in the wrong room", you could walk out till he's gone, you could go into a toilet or shower cubicle or a curtained area, you could ask a member of staff to come in, you could get your phone out and video descreetly anything that happens, you could say "I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable changing in front of you and I can't find a private cubicle, I'm nearly done, would you mind waiting outside for just a few more minutes, thank you" and any genuine person would understand that and oblige, you could wrap your towel round yourself, you could go into the men's and say you feel like a man today and use one of their cubicles, or you could find a decent gym where they have cubicles to change in. But I'd wager no more hairy truckers and bikers are going to be attacking you in bathrooms any more than they are already. I actually can't believe we're having this conversation in the uk, I honestly thought this was another stupid American thing. It's really disappointing.

but if a boy genuinely identifies as female then tough luck, get over it, he's on the girl's team, stick up a curtain and off you trot.

How would that sound if a man wrote it?

but if a boy genuinely identifies as female then tough luck, get over it, he's on the girl's team, stick up a curtain and off you trot.

It's wonderful how women and girls are just supposed to move over, isn't it?

but if a boy genuinely identifies as female then tough luck, get over it, he's on the girl's team, stick up a curtain and off you trot.
Well, that spectacularly misses the point. Boys (and men) tend to be bigger and stronger than girls (and women). If boys can go on the girls team, men who 'feel like' women (or claim they do) will be competing in women's sports, and women (XY women) won't have a bat's chance in hell at the medals in the Olympics.

Super.

I would be a lot more open to debate over the issue of sport, if there were lots of transmen winning male events. If it is just a question of hormone balance it should work both ways.

It seems to me that if a transsexual woman has had full genital surgery and has lived convincingly in the female role for a long long time I don't really feel any problem with them...but. That said that I'm really not sure I've ever come across one of these - Some of them may look like women but often the minute they open their mouths you know that there is something not quite right and the learned male entitlement often seems to follow on next..

A man with a penis who claims to be a woman shouldn't be anywhere near any female space whatsoever..ever. I don't know where they should go, but it's not really my problem either, it's a problem for them to find their own way.

With regard to sports perhaps this is the more difficult area as there isn't really any information either way to suggest that a fully transitioned transsexual has an advantage. I suspect they may well do and if this is the case then they shouldn't be competing with ordinary women. They'll have to accept that if they don't like it, tough - learning to deal with oppression, and male entitlement is something if they really 'felt like a woman' they'd understand would want to take on board seems to me.