Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

Or for that matter, to grow up being pushed aside for boys and inappropriate behaviour from random male strangers.

I wish a device or gadget existed that would allow
Someone, to really experience period pains and labour . So they would really know how it feels to be a woman!

What did you want me to clear up exactly All?

You are seeing the world through rose tinted glasses, you are unwilling to accept any other point of view, there isn't a lot more that anyone can say to you because you want to dictate your views and aren't willing to listen to people who know a lot more about this than you do.

I support trans rights, of course I do, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every whim and notion that every trans activists comes out with, it also doesn't mean that every right the trans activists are fighting for are in the interests of the majority of transgender people.

You are confusing support with blindly agreeing with everything.

So basically transwomen feeling uncomfortable is important but women feeling uncomfortable doesn't matter.

Ditto 'safe'.

...'occasional freak who already exists and already does this now may try to sneak a look at your lady garden' ...

Some of the disparaging language re women is really quite disturbing!

Speak so you think there should be a woman's toilet, a disabled toilet, and the gender neutral toilet? So how does that solve anything? Women are going to go to the women's one and you still got the same problem!

*more

How did all those places manage to sort out disabled toilets? They haven't always been available, and somehow space has been made for them. Perhaps some of the male toilets in venues could be converted into gender neutral toilets for those that want to use them.

A trans-woman probably faces discrimination and danger than a woman does. I said it enough times, I've been great I've been in a violent relationship, I know what some men are capable of, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Choc that was following on from what someone else said about male violence. 🙄

Elsa well that clears it up, thanks. 🙄

And again, it's all very well campaigning for a separate area, but how the fuck is every single school, restaurant, gym, doctor's surgery, hospital, train station, cinema, bar, shopping centre, fucking playground ffs supposed to put in an extra facility specifically for another group??? Okay, so some will have the facilities to be able to change and existing one, some will have a disabled loo they could use, but most places just simply do not have the room! How the fuck is that workable??? Which takes you back to the first point is, if they can't have a separate place, then which one should they use??? The one where they feel on safe and uncomfortable and could quite possibly face violence or discrimination, or the one where the occasional freak who already exists and already does this now may try to sneak a look at your lady garden using them as an excuse. It doesn't make sense.

Not everyone All, no, not everyone.

Elsa is the parent of a trans-gender child. She has helped many people on here understand the difficulties involved. If you stopped spouting off for just one moment and took time to do an AS on her, or anyone else, your posts wouldn't sound so ill informed.

there knowing all those guys are outside probably waiting to jump you

Jesus Christ - where do you live that these regular beatings are happening in the men's changing room? My experiences are that men are generally pretty OK about it all. In fact, I've seen an instagram feed of a transwoman who took pics in the men's toilets, and not a single fuck was given by the men peeing behind.

Can you provide one news story of a tranwoman being beaten up in a men's toilet/changing room? Because we've already provided plenty of transwomen (or perhaps fake transwomen - but how can we tell) abusing women in women's changing rooms.

All that just proves to me what a narrow minded view you have of the situation as a whole.

You have no idea of the challenges and difficulties that this involves.

I have lived with my child being this way for years, way before it was the popular thing to be, and have seen how detrimental this has all been to my child's rights as well as how detrimental it is to women's rights too.

The solution is to raise objections to the upcoming legislation, and campaign for separate spaces for all transgendered people.

Spartacus because quite plainly obviously I don't particularly want to see anyone's genitals and I try to avoid them all in changing rooms but it has happened a few times when I've gone to the communal bit to sit down and put my shoes on and someone is walking around naked and my face is at their crotch height and just, euw, I don't want to see it, I wish everyone would cover up and everyone had a cubicle, it would save a lot of arguments for everyone all round but it's not always gong to be possible in all places so what's the solution??

all

Please, please don't tell Elsa what to do or how you would do it differently.

Elsa because I identify as a woman, not a man! The trans women group you were talking about identify as women, so why would I be scared?

Because identifying as a woman doesn't change ones personality, motives, equipment or intentions. For a sexual predator, (whether trans or not) it's an absolutely perfect disguise. Why don't you see that?

Pooch honestly I'd have no problem with gay men in the women's room if they're at risk in the men's. They're obviously not a danger to me! Is it just the penis you don't want to see regardless of who is attached? That's pretty fucked up.

Empress come on everyone knows the answer to that and it's unpleasant. The majority of men are far bigger and stronger than the majority of women, they can overpower us and generally can fight better and physically control us if they wanted to. A group of them against one trans woman? She doesn't stand a chance, she's going down and she and they know it, if it came to it if she was unlucky enough to come across a group of brainless Neanderthal thugs. A trans woman in a women's room with a group of women isn't the same risk or same threat. They're generally always going to be outnumbered.

Look I don't want my camp gay friend, my trans female friend, my trans male friend or any of my female or male friends being targeted and attacked just because they needed the loo, but we all know what the problem is here and that's not going to change for quite some time. If Brock Turner and the others can get off pretty much scot free we are a long long way from finding a resolution to that, it's going to take generations and in the mean time I think we need to protect the vulnerable ones in society, group together and fight it together. It's not going to happen if we tell our allies that no we don't want you because you have a penis just like them.

Else I understand what you are saying and I'm not sure there's a simple solution for a child, but they're always more protected with adults around, but as an adult wouldn't you want your kids to be able to use the facilities that they identify with and feel safest in? I don't understand how saying yes they can puts them in more danger? If one of my girls decided they were a boy I would want them to look and feel how they are comfortable and use the bathroom they feel happiest in, I don't understand how saying no to that keeps them safer. Most places are not going to have the option to create a third gender neutral room, so where should they go? If everything is mixed and free for all you get people complaining that a man might look at them, if they're separate then that's the whole current issue, if there's no room to create a third room and no separate disabled room to use as a third option then what are they supposed to do??

How does this

Countess I don't know about you but I tend to not look down when I see a naked person, male or female, so all I'd try to see is their waist up.

tally with

But I've never been one of these woman who is happy to wander around a changing room butt naked bold as brass anyway, even in front of women I'll keep a towel around me or go into a cubicle and frankly I wish they'd all do that because I hate sitting to put my shoes on and there's some big old hairy muff in my face, frankly I'd rather see a penis if I had to choose!

"If you and I were in the women's room and I was staring at you and making Hannibal Lecter sucky noises and jacking off you'd still be protected and I've got the equipment to prove I'm a woman ffs."

Oh yeah because that totally happens all the time

Why hasn't anyone thought of protecting us against other women who corner is on toilets to smack their lips & make Hannibal Lecter noises at us as they masturbate in plain sight? WHY, I ask you. WHY?!?!

Thank you All. No reall, Thank You for this much needed initiative.

Finally a banner for us all to unite under!

All, that's a male presenting transman and female presenting transwoman you're talking about.
I was interested in your view about male presenting transwomen, ie the ones who dress male, are biologically male, haven't done any kind of physical transition, but identify as women.

The trans women group you were talking about identify as women, so why would I be scared?

Because 10 blokes who are a group of mates could well have decided 5 minutes beforehand to identify as women for a laugh, and legally they are allowed to do that at the moment.

Like these two. Both convicted sex attackers